So if AWB expires, what will ATFE do ?

[Waitone]

Barring any last minute political maneuvers by anti-2's, AND barring any last minute fits of spinelessness by the republican party, it is entirely reasonable to expect AWB to expire.

Being astitute observers we all know that ain't the end of it.

--Can't get the legislature to do your dirty deed? Move to lawsuits.

--Can't get a lawsuit entertained? Move to the regulatory world.

Some on THR have speculated that when AWB is not reinstituted, look out for ATFE to being regulatory action consistent with the now dead AWB I legislation.

My question to the esteemed forum: What kind of actions will ATFE initiate?

 

[Molon Labe]

I’m not sure what you’re asking, but the ATF (in theory) cannot create laws or regulations. They can only enforce laws.

 

[0007]

If you think that the batf doesn't create new regulations by reviewing and changing it's interpretation of existing regs, you haven't been paying attention for the last 20-30 years...

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I’m not sure what you’re asking, but the ATF (in theory) cannot create laws or regulations. They can only enforce laws.

That's false. It is of course illegal, but they do it all the time. About ten years ago my favorite pocket holster was Federally outlawed. I said to myself, "Gee, I don't remember such legislation coming up for debate or news coverage." I called the local CCW issuing authority in my area and asked when the legislation was passed making my chosen CCW holster illegal. They said there was no new legislation. The ATF just sent them a memo informing them that any handgun in this holster becomes a new handgun, and since you cannot make new handguns without abiding by the proper Federal regulations, the use of that holster was declared by ATF to be a Federal Crime.

 

[Dbl0Kevin]

Hawkeye......what the heck kinda holster was that???

 

[Kharn]

The Real Hawkeye:
The problem was that the holster I believe you are talking about did not look like a firearm when in a fireable configuration. That falls under the definition of an Any Other Weapon (which has been around since 1934), which isnt illegal, as long as you pay the appropriate tax and do the paperwork.

The ATF is only allowed to pass regulations on the importation of firearms and sporting purpose of arms with bore diameters bigger than .50". They can also give an opinion on if something falls under the National Firearms Act or not but that law is pretty easy to read and there's often no real debate when something is found to fall under that.

After the AW ban expires, as long as a company only makes rifles that:
1. have a barrel over 16",
2. habe an overall length (with stock extended) over 26",
3. have a bore diameter less than or equal to .50"
4. have enough domestic parts to be considered American made,
and 5. are not machine guns,
the ATF cant do squat to stop them.

For pistols, its even simplier:
1. no buttstock,
2. enough US made parts,
3. not a machine gun
4. look like a firearm when able to be fired.
and the ATF cant stop them.

Kharn

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Yes, you have to remember the original ban passed after Clinton had been in office for two years and it had been proposed (often multiple times per session) every year since 1989.

If ATF had any legislative authority they could have used to ban semi-autos, you can bet they would have used it long before 1994.

ATF also has to watch it doesn't step on the toes of Congress. If we win enough seats in the Senate this November, we could have a pro-majority in both the House and Senate strong enough to fight any new ban attempts - it would also be strong enough to put a big dent in the ATF budget if they tried to stretch their existing authority to cover authority they no longer had.

 

[hammer4nc]

ATF still takes its orders from the executive...whether its through treasury or justice.

Under Bush, they've been busy with "Project Safe Neighborhoods", lately, which really has dumped a lot of money into extended sentences for gun violations. Expect to see this continue, if Bush is reelected. Likely scenario: Bush will sign AWB1 extension, in a heartbeat, if he thinks it will help him hold the White House (will be advertised as a "compromise", vs. the much more sweeping AWB2). Things won't change much from present day.

If Kerry is elected, Katy bar the door. ATF will be used as a political pawn, again, (like they were during Klinton), wielding regulatory powers to harass and intimidate. Remember when ATF used "zoning" infractions to deny ffl licenses? That was originally a Tom Diaz idea.

Under Kerry, the gun debate will become a "public health/human rights issue", in line with United Nations initiatives. Even without a single new law being passed, 4473 denials could be based on more stringent mental health requirements, just one of many possibilities. For the best example of what an agency can do irrespective of laws (or the expressed will of Congress, for that matter), just look at what TSA is doing now on the "armed pilots" program!!!

 

[Wildalaska]

Ill take my tinfoil off long enough to comment Bartholomew Roberts and Kharn for the correct exposiiton of the facts here...


WildreynoldswrapAlaska

 

[Tamara]

WildreynoldswrapAlaska,

I did find it interesting that the ATF could suddenly declare the Striker, Streetsweeper, and USAS-12 to be "Destructive Devices", when a Saiga or 11/87P is just a "Semiautomatic Shotgun."

Discuss amongst yourselves.

 

[NMshooter]

Actually they could declare that your single shot 20ga. shotgun was a destructive device, if they really felt like it. Without congressional approval. There is no law on the books making the ownership of any modern cartridge firearm with a bore diameter greater than 0.50" legal. Shotguns and certain large bore hunting rifles determined to have a "sporting purpose" are granted exceptions to this rule.

 

[hammer4nc]

There's lots of room for abuse in the grey areas, with no new legislation required. It was just a year ago this week that ATF raided PW Arms in Redmond WA, and hauled off truckloads of property (search THR forum for details). FAL parts kits that passed ATF approval for import , suddenly became illegal when ATF decided that these were "readily convertible" to full auto.

Try as I might, I can't find any final disposition of this case (charges, arrests or trials???) Perhaps some Washington state gunnies can provide updates? Thanks in advance.

Anyway, imagine Kerry at the helm of ATF... we would *NEVER* see stepped up enforcement within these administative rules, according to Mr. Wildalaska...you paranoid loonie tinfoil fringe stormfront dwellers!