So many AK's! Which is the best?

[dolanp]

The VEPRs are not so cheap anymore because they stopped importing them for a while and all that's for sale is what's out there in people's hands. They are about to start selling them again at multiple distributors (I believe) but they won't be the $500-600 that they used to go for from what I hear.

Converted Saigas are nice though. I have one and I like it a lot. Arsenal is also highly-regarded.

 

[Garrabo]

VEPR

whats the deal with the VEPR? are they just out of stock or on back order?

 

[JWarren]

It is my understanding that Saiga (Russian Arms of America) bought out Vepr.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11386


The talk is that Vepr's will be out eventually, but the price is gonna be steep.


Side note, look at the AK's made by Vector Arms as well. I have a Polish AK-47 underfolder ordered directly from them, and is is a VERY solid, nice rifle.


John

 

[MechAg94]

I heard the company in Russia that made the Vepr was bought out by a competitor. Robinson Armament had been selling them in the US. I have heard that the company in Russia will soon start importing them again through a different distributor, but I have no idea if it will be the same rifle.

 

[dolanp]

I think that Molot got sued over patent infringement and so Izhmash ended up acquiring the entire company under the settlement.

 

[SeNNebogen]

How much do you want to spend?

I have seen about ten threads with this same topic and it allways boils down to VEPR vs. Arsenal. You can spend anywhere from $350 to $1400. Arsenals being on the high end and WASRs on the low.

If you decide you want a .223 AK I would stick with Arsenal(because of possible mag issues). They make their own mags for their .223 rifles and they are reliable but expensive. Though I have read about people complaining about the new 106 .223 rifles haveing canted front sights so be aware or stick with 7.62

Check to see if your getting a chrome lined bore and an optics rail on the reciever. Some companies are useing American made barrels now because of the barrel ban and their not chrome lined. And an optics rail is allways nice if you want to pop a reddot or POSP scope on it so you dont have to use the iron sights.

I have a VEPR in 5.45 (AK 74) and two Arsenals in 7.62x39. The VEPR cost me about $550 about a year ago and the Arsenals cost me $800 and $1300.

 

[benEzra]

Oh and whats the difference between a milled reciever and a stamped one? The way the text has been put onto the reciever? Why does that make a difference?

As others have said, stamped means the receiver is made from a (rugged) piece of thick sheet metal, and milled means the receiver is made from a solid block of steel that has been hollowed out to make the receiver.

Milled are heavier, more expensive, and may be slightly more accurate, though I have read that they don't have much of an edge over high-end stamped AK's.

Stamped are lighter and look more like a real AKM. Here's my stamped Romanian AK lookalike (SAR-1):

Circled areas show differences between my ban-era carbine (2002 model, purchased in 2003) and a preban or post-ban rifle. The latest WASR's look much the same, except they lack the oval dimple over the magazine (have a riveted internal spacer instead) and have muzzle brakes and bayonet lugs (little protrusion on the bottom of the gas block).

Here's a closeup of the receiver:

Notice the visible rivet heads. A higher-end AK lookalike would have fewer machining marks, and a smoother, more even finish.

Trivia--the real AK-47 (the select-fire one) started out as a milled-receiver weapon, and transitioned to a stamped-receiver design (AKM) in the mid to late 1950's, as I recall. The Soviets felt the stamped design was not only superior from a manufacturing standpoint, but from a functional standpoint. They are IMHO equally durable; after all, the 1mm thick stamped receiver box is used on full-auto AK's, and doesn't break.


Some more discussion here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-24484.html


Here's an interesting post from GlockTalk that has some good things to say:

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?referrerid=49164&threadid=440447

Yes, "high quality" in AK land merely means pretty fit and finish. Even the crappiest MAADI and WASR will fire reliably and last for tens of thousands of rounds. It is the definition of the AK design. Even the stamped versus milled debate is moot. Your barrel will likely need replacing before any receiver will.

I've shot and owned most of the production aks available including Bulgies. I agree that the VEPRs are the prettiest. I own 2 and am saving for another. The fit and finish is pure butter. You really have to examine one up close to appreciate it. Plus, you get the heavy RPK barrel and receiver. The parts are so nice that I've replaced many parts on my WASR with the VEPR versions. The VEPR goes from $550 to $750 depending on options. For the price of a stock high end Bulgie (SAM7) you can have a fully loaded VEPR complete with their new folding stock, an Ultimak tri rail, and rail accessories like a bipod and vertical foregrip. However, the complaint with both the VEPR and Bulgies is weight. That is the price you pay for RPK or milled receivers. That is also why I find myself shooting my not pretty WASR more than any of my other AKs!!!

For lighter "pretty" options, look into the many new small-company builds based on parts kits and Ohio Ordnance, Vulcan, Armory, etc receivers. Atlanticfirearms.com has a few for under $500. Many more in the $650 range. Others can be found on gunbroker.com et al. Several Russian Saiga rebuilds are nice too. Quality here depends on the builder and not the country of origin of parts. I've seen a pretty tasty-looking Romanian build on an EWBanks receiver recently.

But definitely go to gun shows and handle as many AKs as possible. That is the best way to assess "quality". We're all biased here.

 

[trbon8r]

After much deliberation I went with the Saiga in 7.62X39.

I'm planning on getting it converted to take AK mags. I may send the rifle off to Tromix and have them do the work once the money tree begins blooming again.

I would have preferred a .223, but I heard just enough complaints about trying to get converted Saigas in .223 to feed right. It sounds like getting good magazines that don't cause problems can be a bit tricky.

I think the Saigas for around $250 look like a good bargain.

 

[MrPeter]

Thanks for all of the replies!

I definately don't plan on doing much shooting beyond 100m, as I don't even know of a range around here that's that big, much less 500m, so uber-accuracy isn't necessary.
I love the AK for its look and historical value (my father carried one when he was in the army back in the 'old country'.) He won't tell me which one he carried because he doesn't know (or care).
It seems like I would like something with a milled reciever then (heavy is reliable, and if it doesnt shoot, you can always hit him with it! ) and with a wood stock, muzzle break, bayonet lug, and in 7.62x39.

Seems like the ones they have (out of stock) at aimsurplus would do the trick.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/NEW_AK_WASR_RIFLE_w__Bayonet_Lug___Muzzle_Break.html
Wonder if it has a milled reciever? If not, from what you guys say its not a big deal. Might be better to have a stamped one anyway if I ever need it for a SHTF scenario.

Thank you all very much for your input!

 

[MrPeter]

I know this thread is dead, but as a status update,

Today I ordered the AK mentioned in the above post, as it is now in stock. My first FFL transfer, and it went pretty smoothly, even though the guy I talked to at AIMsurplus seemed a little annoyed at the fact that he was conversing with a "noob".

Its a little self-gift for the 21st birthday. Tomorrow I go to the DMV to get a HORIZONTAL LICENSE! (To you non-WA'ers, people <21 get vertically formatted DL's and ID's, and people >=21 get horizontal one), and then from there straight to the sheriffs office to get my CPL!

I don't think i'll get much sleep tonight.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

Happy birthday, and happy shooting buddy!

 

[Evil Monkey]

I'd stick to soviet calibers for soviet/russian weapons. 223 is nice and all for standardization but 5.45mm is really cheap and plentiful now. Last I saw was either Bulgarian or Polish 1,080 round sardine can for $120. Mags are cheap as hell for 5.45mm. I was at a gun show 2 days ago and there were 223 AK mags like weigers for $25, couple of yugo's for like $35, and bulgarian mags for $35.

What about those 5.45mm orange bakelites? No more than $15 each, and most were selling them for $8!!!! Even the bulgarian 5.45mm mags were $15 each.

Standardize on guns, not ammo. Ammo will always be there.

Because if by some miracle the anti gun laws were rolled back and the Chinese started exporting 5.8mm Chinese QBZ-95 rifles to the USA, you know that the USA would be dumped with huge amounts of 5.8mm ammo from China. Scarcity wouldn't even be an issue.

Just my 2 cents on AK's.

 

[scurtis_34471]

There are a few VEPR rifles out there now. I just got one of the new 7.62x39 VEPRs sold under the Russian American Armory branding. It should arrive on Friday and I'll be happy to tell you more when it gets here. Its got a nice wood thumbhole stock and ships with a scope mount and rings. The only downside is that the new VEPRs only take SAIGA mags unless you modify the receiver. The SAIGA mags are supposed to be well-made steel mags and they are available in 5, 10 and 30 round capacities. The only real downside is cost. I just spent $100 to get 2 30 rounders.

 

[rangerruck]

a saiga , under 300 , will do better than all, except your high end forged , milled type ak's, such as vepr , arsenal, etc.

 

[scurtis_34471]

I looked at a SAIGA with a dragunov stock at a gun show. It was very nice.