So many new pistols coming to market, is it overkill? Which one is best?
- Thread starter george burns
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Zaydok Allen
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I guess I don't really see it as a problem.
Yes, there are tons of choices out there now, but there have been for quite a few years. Either the market will support that, or it won't. The hot buying streak that the Obama years created undoubtedly helped fund R&D for a lot of makers and allowed them to branch out. Sales are still strong from what I hear, but certainly not as strong as a few years ago. As profits dry up, so will older lines of guns, as money for tooling will be spent on the latest and greatest line of guns draw in dollars.
Capitalism supports variety in the market place, and so does a planet with 7 billion people on it. We gun enthusiasts often own a lot more guns then we actually need, so we help support the industry over and above what the ACTUAL need is.
However, I view the market place like I view a forest. The more populated it is, the more decadent it becomes. Eventually, a fire comes through, and kills off the weaker, and typically younger individuals, because without a more well established layer of bark and a substantial root structure, the young and weaker trees/companies are less resistant to disturbance.
That disturbance will be financial, social, or political. If unchecked population growth continues, the disturbance to the gun industry may follow a massive medical disturbance to the human population of the world. But now I'm doomsday prophesizing.
The bottom line is I see no reason for people to be intimidated. The internet has made access to knowledge and the process of research so much easier than in the past. Access to firearms is better than ever before with online vendors also. You can find the info you need on manufacturer's websites, and real user opinions on forums like this and on youtube. Like any product, the end user needs to do some research.
Here's the thing, we see all the variety because we are interested in guns. A lot of folks just want a gun for SD or HD and will buy what is affordable, what is "good enough", or what they think looks cool. They may not even really shoot it much in their lives. They likely go to a local shop, find one that works, and leave happy. So what are they missing by not exploring all the options?
They aren't missing anything, because they'll never know. We know, because we choose to know. It's all about perception and interest.
Yes, there are tons of choices out there now, but there have been for quite a few years. Either the market will support that, or it won't. The hot buying streak that the Obama years created undoubtedly helped fund R&D for a lot of makers and allowed them to branch out. Sales are still strong from what I hear, but certainly not as strong as a few years ago. As profits dry up, so will older lines of guns, as money for tooling will be spent on the latest and greatest line of guns draw in dollars.
Capitalism supports variety in the market place, and so does a planet with 7 billion people on it. We gun enthusiasts often own a lot more guns then we actually need, so we help support the industry over and above what the ACTUAL need is.
However, I view the market place like I view a forest. The more populated it is, the more decadent it becomes. Eventually, a fire comes through, and kills off the weaker, and typically younger individuals, because without a more well established layer of bark and a substantial root structure, the young and weaker trees/companies are less resistant to disturbance.
That disturbance will be financial, social, or political. If unchecked population growth continues, the disturbance to the gun industry may follow a massive medical disturbance to the human population of the world. But now I'm doomsday prophesizing.
The bottom line is I see no reason for people to be intimidated. The internet has made access to knowledge and the process of research so much easier than in the past. Access to firearms is better than ever before with online vendors also. You can find the info you need on manufacturer's websites, and real user opinions on forums like this and on youtube. Like any product, the end user needs to do some research.
Here's the thing, we see all the variety because we are interested in guns. A lot of folks just want a gun for SD or HD and will buy what is affordable, what is "good enough", or what they think looks cool. They may not even really shoot it much in their lives. They likely go to a local shop, find one that works, and leave happy. So what are they missing by not exploring all the options?
They aren't missing anything, because they'll never know. We know, because we choose to know. It's all about perception and interest.
TTv2
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We're gonna see that the next time a panic hits, just like we saw last time. Very few new/unique guns, more pistols, AR's, anything that uses detachable mags that hold over 10 rds, etc. being pumped out and sold for higher prices due to increased demand.
I don't think companies that are surviving in the market right now where there is no fear based buying are going to go belly up when the panic buying happens again. Who will go under are the companies struggling right now... Colt and Remington.
SwampWolf
Member
As far as I'm concerned, the more guns the merrier. There's lots of cars and toasters on the market to choose from and most of us appreciate choices. Like anything else, it's up to the buyer to invest in research and inquiry to determine which of which is best for his/her individual needs/wants. If a consumer needs a station wagon and leaves the car dealer with a convertible, well, whose fault is that?
I know it is a bit of a threadjack, but on your detachable magazine point, the place where it is obvious in the Walther PK380. The issue might be in other pistols, this just happens to be one that I have.
Looking in the magazine well, it is obvious that it was first designed to have a double stack magazine. The single stack magazine looks out of place in the wide magazine well. I hadn't considered it; but I can see that as a measure to prepare for the possible eventuality that pistol that can accept a factory magazine over ten rounds may be banned.
AlexanderA
Member
One big difference between guns and other lines of consumer products is that guns (with proper care) rarely wear out. A gun made in 1918 is just as lethal as one made in 2018. This limits the market for replacements.
I think that the current trend to polymer guns is a belated attempt by the industry to rectify this, and finally make guns that will need to be replaced in a few years. However, the existing inventory of steel guns is so large that this might not have a significant effect.
I think that the current trend to polymer guns is a belated attempt by the industry to rectify this, and finally make guns that will need to be replaced in a few years. However, the existing inventory of steel guns is so large that this might not have a significant effect.
RETG
Member
From a different perspective, how would people feel if there was not a large selection of handguns to pick from? Would the glock crowd be happy with one 9mm, one .40, one 10mm and one .45 and still at the first generation? Same with the Sig, H&K, Beretta, Ruger, etc., crowds?
For me, so long as there are H&Ks, SIGs and Berettas, the rest of the manufactures can start making paint ball or rubber band guns.
If I was not old and set in my ways on which gun manufacturers I will only use (basically carrying the three brands noted on and off my entire life), a larger selection would be great. Yes, it might be difficult to wade between the advertising BS and the worthless references from friends and relative, but just like vehicle shopping; it would be fun.
For me, so long as there are H&Ks, SIGs and Berettas, the rest of the manufactures can start making paint ball or rubber band guns.
If I was not old and set in my ways on which gun manufacturers I will only use (basically carrying the three brands noted on and off my entire life), a larger selection would be great. Yes, it might be difficult to wade between the advertising BS and the worthless references from friends and relative, but just like vehicle shopping; it would be fun.
CLP
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Unless you're looking for a full size truck with diesel and a manual transmission.
If1HitU
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I only been buying guns eight years,but I like many choices to choose from.I thank it's a good thing.
rskent
Member
Nope, I don’t think so. I know I wouldn’t. I didn’t start buying Glocks until the Gen 4’s came out. But having said that, If I hadn’t started getting into Glocks I would still be shooting. It would just be 1911’s. Oh darn.
JohnBiltz
Member
I used to own one of their over/unders 3 decades ago.
JohnBiltz
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A few years? Those Glocks that were brought over in the mid 80s are still running. Other companies are making them because they want in on the profits. After 30 years of having your butt kicked by Glock they are tired of it.
somethingbenign
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Having just got into firearms this past year I didn't really have a problem navigating all the options. Just started renting at a local range and handling guns a local stores. Couple that with all the information online and forums like this I felt very comfortable buying and not feeling like I was getting fleeced. Hard thing is being able to spend time in a store and be willing to leave with nothing in hand. All the current options are great because it made it much easier to not have to make concessions when shopping around plus the prices coming down is nice too.
I think "social media" has driven the market to a large degree, as the end user's voices have been heard.
In years past it took bring a person such as Elmer Keith to get a manufacturer of a firearm or ammo to implement design changes.
These days, a quick scan of forums and blogs gives a designer a fairly good thumbnail view of what is and isn't working or what the market wants.
Take the new Ruger PCC for example.
In the old days when I first got into shooting (1981) it would have taken forever to find out his the rifle handled.
Even then it would be some guy who worked for a gun publication who had to bear in mind he couldn't heavily criticize a firearm in which Ruger might be a major account in their ad department.
In a short time we have learned they are quite accurate and dependable.
In years past it took bring a person such as Elmer Keith to get a manufacturer of a firearm or ammo to implement design changes.
These days, a quick scan of forums and blogs gives a designer a fairly good thumbnail view of what is and isn't working or what the market wants.
Take the new Ruger PCC for example.
In the old days when I first got into shooting (1981) it would have taken forever to find out his the rifle handled.
Even then it would be some guy who worked for a gun publication who had to bear in mind he couldn't heavily criticize a firearm in which Ruger might be a major account in their ad department.
In a short time we have learned they are quite accurate and dependable.
As for a primer for someone looking to buy a handgun, it already exists and is called the internet.
It is necessarily a complex primer because different people want different things... sometimes diametrically opposed things. Take weight, for instance. Someone who is planning to shoot a gun a lot and cares about recoil control and stability should want a relatively heavy gun. Someone who plans to carry the thing everywhere and shoot it very rarely should look for a very light gun. We're one characteristic in and at diametrically opposite ends of the scale.
It is necessarily a complex primer because different people want different things... sometimes diametrically opposed things. Take weight, for instance. Someone who is planning to shoot a gun a lot and cares about recoil control and stability should want a relatively heavy gun. Someone who plans to carry the thing everywhere and shoot it very rarely should look for a very light gun. We're one characteristic in and at diametrically opposite ends of the scale.
Zaydok Allen
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Moon pies........ LOL!
ChanceMcCall
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The internet is a two edged sword. You are right, there is tons of information out there. Unfortunately much of it is based on opinions of people who are simply regurgitating what they have read, and a lot of it is wrong.
Yep. Critical thinking is an essential life skill. No way around that anymore.
A "primer" doesn't fix that. Anybody can write a primer. Whatever views the author have will be presented as the truth, unless the author is very, very conscientious to present things in a balanced way. And a new prospective gun owner who has no background information (the target market for a primer) has no reference for making a judgment as to whether the author is doing that.
A "primer" doesn't fix that. Anybody can write a primer. Whatever views the author have will be presented as the truth, unless the author is very, very conscientious to present things in a balanced way. And a new prospective gun owner who has no background information (the target market for a primer) has no reference for making a judgment as to whether the author is doing that.
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People complain when options are limited and people complain when there are too many options...
I understand it can be confusing, but a little research goes a long way. I'd rather have the options.
As for a new shooter trying to determine what to buy - I'd suggest going to a well stocked shop or even better a shooting range and looking at the models in person. Most shops limit their stock to the more popular and cheaper models within a lineup. This is what most people start out with anyways.
People get so nit-picky about what they want. The manufacturers are responding to this. I don't know how many times I've seen posts where someone swears they would buy a gun if the manufacturer only made the barrel and inch longer or shorter, or if they got rid of a safety or added a safety, or numerous other small tweaks.
I understand it can be confusing, but a little research goes a long way. I'd rather have the options.
As for a new shooter trying to determine what to buy - I'd suggest going to a well stocked shop or even better a shooting range and looking at the models in person. Most shops limit their stock to the more popular and cheaper models within a lineup. This is what most people start out with anyways.
People get so nit-picky about what they want. The manufacturers are responding to this. I don't know how many times I've seen posts where someone swears they would buy a gun if the manufacturer only made the barrel and inch longer or shorter, or if they got rid of a safety or added a safety, or numerous other small tweaks.
Fine Figure of a Man
Member
Just like many (most?) of the guys behind the gun shop counter.
OP
OP
george burns
Member
The amount of usable knowledge one can derive from utube videos, and reviews by biased gun reviewers bought and paid for is really useless. We all know many popular reviewers who have never reviewed a firearm that wasn't a "terrific little gun", "Twang"./ This is a business that pays very well and once a person or group has a certain amount of hits on their site, they would be really stupid to tell the truth about their experiences with many guns that were not so great. You really need to figure out what you like, need, and works for you, and take the plunge.
As we old timers know, some guns are the gold standard, and if you negotiate the waters around those guns, chances are you will end up with something you can live with, if not love. When you see 200, 1911's at a gun show, it's difficult if not impossible to start asking what the differences are, and even after 50-60 years of shooting, there are subtle differences even between the same gun from the same company. You can't possibly shoot them all, so you need a mentor who you trust, and that knows what you need, not what they like. I picked up the 45 PC Shield, a month ago, and haven't shot it yet, buy I know already that the front strap is too thin, and will cut into my inside hand after a few dozen rounds, but that is acceptable with a carry gun, the 30S, which it replaced was just too thick to carry, "for me". And I like Glock 30's.
I found myself taking a 9mm with me instead. It's a process . A carry gun should be needed only when you're life is at risk, so as long as it's accurate enough and small enough to carry, the recoil is really no big deal. I probably wouldn't feel it anyhow. A HD gun can be larger and hold 30 rounds if it's staying at home. And we all have our own opinion on how long this imaginary gunfight will last and how many rounds you will need, there are guys who think that 5 are enough and those who feel that 3 mags with 20 per, is just sufficient. My theory with that is if you are going to be around long enough to empty 50 rounds or more, you probably aren't going to survive. The magic number is someplace in between. Perhaps body armor is a better investment than that next gun.
1KPerDay
Member
Amen to that. 9 out of 10 gun counter guys couldn't find their butt if it had a bell on it. IME. I trust some of the more reputable THR members to provide accurate information and meaningful feedback, before I'd rely on a random gun counter dude. There are exceptions of course.
1KPerDay
Member
I beg to differ. Huge/painful/debilitating amounts of recoil can prevent you from being accurate. If you only need one bullet, why not carry a single shot? A scandium-framed j-frame .357 shooting hot 158+ grain loads is (for me) so painful that it would (and has) hinder any follow up shots. Bad guys usually travel in groups.
/hijack
walnut1704
Member
...or a Hi-Power....
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