So much for Texas civil liberties...arrests IN BARS for being drunk?

[Manedwolf]

And I thought that state's government somewhat valued civil liberties. Guess not!

Texas arresting people in bars for being drunk

Wed Mar 22, 6:05 PM ET (Reuters)

Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk, a spokeswoman for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said on Wednesday.

The first sting operation was conducted recently in a Dallas suburb where agents infiltrated 36 bars and arrested 30 people for public intoxication, said the commission's Carolyn Beck.

Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness, Beck said.

The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

"We feel that the only way we're going to get at the drunk driving problem and the problem of people hurting each other while drunk is by crackdowns like this," she said.

"There are a lot of dangerous and stupid things people do when they're intoxicated, other than get be
hind the wheel of a car," Beck said. "People walk out into traffic and get run over, people jump off of balconies trying to reach a swimming pool and miss."

She said the sting operations would continue throughout the state.

 

[GTSteve03]

Nice to see these cops know what the drunks are going to do before they actually do it.

Funny me, I thought "Minority Report" was a work of fiction...

 

[Aleko]

The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

So it's almost like arresting people for crimes they may commit in the future. And we thought Minority Report was fiction…

P.S. Looks like GTSteve03 beat me by a few seconds, but it's funny how our posts are nearly identical...

 

[HankB]

Local radio programs have been talking about this quite a bit. The threshold being used is apparently 0.18% BAC, which is over twice the 0.08% BAC which indicates drunk driving.

The thing is, while everyone is aware of the "implied consent" law that imposes automatic penalties if a motorist refuses to take a drunk test, there is NO such "implied consent" law that requires one to submit to ANY sort of test if you're sitting on a bar stool.

So . . . in the absence of a breathalyzer or some other drunk test, how the %$#! are they determining public intoxication unless the person is staggering and falling down drunk? What if the alleged drunk is part of a group with a 100% sober designated driver? Or if the alleged drunk is a guest at a hotel, drinking in a hotel bar, who only needs to find his way - on foot! - back to his hotel room?

If I'm not driving a motor vehicle and I've had a few drinks, any LEO that tries to have me take a drunk test will politely be told to pound sand.

 

[GTSteve03]

P.S. Looks like GTSteve03 beat me by a few seconds, but it's funny how our posts are nearly identical...

How does that line go about "Great minds...?"

 

[Biker]

Unbelievable. What's next? Ya can't do the Bone Dance in a House of Ill Repute?
Biker

 

[Lupinus]

that is utterly retarded

I don't go to bars I hate them. Maybe next time though I buy a six pack there will be a goverment agent to make sure I don't get drunk at home, after al i might decide to then go back out. Yanno, kinda like the cracker jack prize.

 

[scout26]

Carrie Nation would be so proud.

 

[Nitrogen]

The state of Texas has such a strange relationship with Alcohol.
If you're not from texas, you might not be aware of the whole "WET/DRY fiasco. Basically, alcohol is not allowed in any dry area. There are ways around this, but the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Comission rivals the BATFE on evil enforcement tactics.

One of my favorite rules:

Possession of more than one quart of liquor or more than the equivalent of 24 12-oz containers of beer is prima facia evidence of possession with intent to sell in a dry area.

I'm in violation of this law, as i'm sure most Texans in a dry area are. I have some vodka, some rum, and some tequelia, so i'm already over the limit.

http://www.texassafetynetwork.org/issues/wet_dry/faq/index.php
for more info on teh whole wet/dry system. It's insane here. It feels like prohibition.

 

[Art Eatman]

The had to change the name of the old-days "Liquor Control Board" to "Alcholic Beverage Commission". It was too difficult and complex for the agents to remember "LCB".

I imagine this will be a rather short-lived bit of idiocy. Too many legislators, movers and shakers are vulnerable.

Art

 

[Baron Holbach4]

Carrie Nation would be so proud.

The ever expanding regulatory police state.

 

[El Tejon]

I was drunk in a bar; I was THROWN into public. Tater Salad.

Ahhh, public drunkenness! At last something El Tejon is expert in.

Tejas, like many states, defines "public" as a public place or place of public resort. Public resort would be a bidness that invites the public on in, e.g., oh, I don't know, a bar.

Note that "public place" could be your own house under some fact patterns. E.g. you are hosting a block party and inviting any Tom, Tejon or Harry off the street to drink at your keg. Your swinging bachelor pad could become a public place under your state's public intoxication statute.

In summary, a bar could be a public place, but it depends. Doesn't it always.

Civil liberty to be drunk in public? West Lafayette bar owners rejoice!

 

[Fletchette]

What are the ramifications of being convicted of this "crime"? Are you a felon? Do you lose your right to buy a gun? Vote?

Not long before the stigma of being a "criminal" passes. Soon, everyone will be a criminal.

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

You know, I just had a thought.

There is a neighborhood bar in St. Louis County I used to frequent (moved out farther from the commies and I'm out of the County now).

In any event, there were a lot of "bar flies" in the bar. Lotsa regulars. Great place, friendly and fun. Always has been.

I really would not like to be a liquor control agent trying to arrest one of the regulars for being drunk. I don't think it would be very healthy.

YMMV.

 

[jcs271]

Please explain to me what in the world arresting people for PUBLIC DRUNKENESS has to do with civil liberties.

The statutes wording will vary little from state to state but it is basically described as being "unable to care for ones own safety or the safety of others due to intoxication".

If some drunk is staggering down the street or lying in the doorway of your store you all would be the first ones to call the police to come and get him.

Bars are "public places" so being proactive and stopping some potential drunk drivers as well as other public nuisances is definately not a bad thing. It also puts the bars on notice that they have a responsibility to limit service to obvious drunks.

The only liberties that could be violated here are your families when some piece of **** drunk kills them on there way home from school!

Drunk in public = Go to jail

 

[El Tejon]

Here it's 0 to 180 days and 0 to 1K fine. Misdemeanor, not a felony. No loss of voting or gun rights. Might affect your LTCH administratively especially in Texas.

In practice no jail time until about #5 or unless you are on probation and get clipped for a PI and then admit to the probation violation and the new PI is dismissed (usually).

 

[DKSuddeth]

This is nothing more than a shakedown of texas citizens. It's a misdemeanor with a fine of up to $500. The TABC is also fining the owners of the establishment which is a fine up to $15,000. Perry and Dewhurst are pushing this through because they are in a cash crunch.

 

[Manedwolf]

Bars are "public places" so being proactive and stopping some potential drunk drivers as well as other public nuisances is definately not a bad thing.

And what's next on the way down that slippery slope? Being "proactive" and arresting people legally carrying a concealed weapon before they hurt someone with it? Because they MIGHT, you know...

You're okay with arresting someone for being a POTENTIAL drunk driver, without knowing if they even had any intent to drive? Since when did giving your keys to a friend because you know you're going to have fun getting smashed on a pub crawl become an arrestable offense?

What kind of country do you want?

 

[El Tejon]

Mane, well, in all fairness, public intox is a crime.

 

[HankB]

Please explain to me what in the world arresting people for PUBLIC DRUNKENESS has to do with civil liberties . . . If some drunk is staggering down the street or lying in the doorway of your store you all would be the first ones to call the police to come and get him.

The problem is they're NOT limiting their actions to people passed out or staggering - according to news reports, in some cases they're physically dragging lucid people off bar stools, taking them outside, and administering sobriety tests.

Again, I'm aware of NO repeat NO law that requires you to submit to sobriety testing unless you're driving or attempting to drive a motor vehicle on public roads.

 

[Manedwolf]

Mane, well, in all fairness, public intox is a crime.

Of course...staggering down the street, laughing and throwing up and accosting passers-by, yes. It's been that way in most nations for nearly a thousand years, if not longer.

But going INTO a bar, where people are drinking, not bothering non-drinking members of the public, and arresting them there, not because they're being disorderly or destructive, but just because they're...drunk? In a bar?

 

[Art Eatman]

jcs271, two points: First, the cops were arresting registered hotel guests, who weren't going to drive anywhere at all. For them, the physical reality was the same as if they were at home.

Second, your line of reasoning on the drunk driving parallels the notion that guns shouldn't be allowed because somebody might get shot. At least, it looks to me that you're equating being in a bar, drinking, with walking around with a CHL.

It's a two-step deal: If you get drunk, don't drive; take a cab. If you don't take a cab, laws are in place to deal with it.

Same with the CHL: Since you can only use a gun if you're in danger, using it in another fashion brings in the laws in place to deal with that.

Art

 

[jcs271]

Sorry Maned Wolf, I don't see a "slippery slope" correlation with arresting someone for public drunkeness and your ccw example.

Hank B,, I don't know anymore details about the techniques than you do but there is no STATUTORY (written law) that designates what level of intoxication is considered "DRUNK". Drunk driving in most states IS codified and most states consider anything over.08 as being impaired.

Drunk in public has always been enforced strictly on the objective signs displayed by the suspect and observed by the officer. (odor of alcohol, red watery eyes, slurred speech, staggering gate, etc.)

If you are in PUBLIC and you are drunk you are in violation, "designated drivers" and "just having fun" mean nothing. Sorry!

 

[Fletchette]

Would it be too difficult for the police to simply follow the drunkard when he/she leaves the bar to see if they go to their car, and arrest them there?

 

[El Tejon]

BTW, this sting operation will end by July 4th weekend, right?

Ummm, asking for a friend.