So my GySgt told me never to load "15+1"

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TheLastBoyScout

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We had a class on the M9 where the Gunny emphasized that this procedure WILL cause the 2nd round to fail to feed, and therefore shouldn't be used.

Does this apply to all quality autoloaders?

Or just Beretta M9s?

Or just M9s with crappy mil-issue magazines? I've already heard stories about how bad issue mags are compared to Beretta factory 15 rounders.

In particular I'm thinking about my personal 92FS, or possibly my XD-45 or 1911. I'm getting my CHP in October.
 
I don't think you can make a blanket statement about any gun or magazine. I know that some of my gun/mag combos do not do well being loaded X+1 and others work fine.
 
I've tried it with both my Glock 26 and my Taurus 24/7. Everything functioned fine, aside from the stout smack you need to get the mag in. Personally, I don't load +1.

I suppose you could ask the gunny to "prove it" but they probably don't take kindly to that.
 
It won't necessarily lead to failure. Here's what's going on. The cartridges in the magazine exert pressure (because of the magazine spring) against the bottom of the feed rib (that portion of the slide that pushes the cartridge from the magazine onto the feed ramp and into the barrel). By loading the magazine to its full capacity, you increase the pressure that must be overcomed for the slide to unlock, extract the spent cartridge, eject the same and then strip off a fresh cartridge from the magazine. A mil-spec or SAAMI spec cartridge should generate sufficient pressure to do this and a well engineered gun should take this into account. However, if something doesn't meet the manufacturer's specifications (aftermarket magazine or factory magazine that has aftermarket parts (springs) or is defective or deformed), non-spec ammunition or the gun is old fashion DIRTY, then the probability of failure increases. Hence, what your Gunny suggested (or more succinctly INSTRUCTED) reduces that probability of failure. Less pressure on the slide and there's less resistence for the action to overcome. I don't recommend questioning the Gunny. Questions of that nature is seen as a challenge to one's authority and unless you like being on Gunny's sh*t list, don't do it.
 
Well I was taught long ago to say "Yes Sir," and to do my own thing out of view is better then to question someone in charge.

Anyways a lot of people in the gun world carry +1, I haven't seen many issues other then a harder time pulling the slide back. Anyways if it was a real risk must gun companies would put disclaimers in their manuals not to do it, like the usual use the right ammo, and no reloads disclaimers.
 
15+1

I was just wondering if they allow you to carry an M9 with one in the chamber? For some reason I thought I heard that somewhere, I can't imagine why so I am probably wrong. I would assume that if they do allow you to carry one in the chamber it would be decocked. If what the Gunny told you was true then I wouldn't consider it a 15 round mag for all practical purposes, and what Gary posted is what would cause the problems, I think too that as your mag springs loosen up the problem would be less likely to occur.
 
Sorry, as much as I respect a Gunny.....he's wrong.

When I carried a Beretta for duty, it was always 15+1......and never ever failed. Actually, every semi-auto that I carry is loaded +1 and none of them have ever failed.
 
From what I've heard about some of the magazines/springs in the M9s, it may not be bad advice in general unless you're very familiar with the particular pistol and have used it quite a bit.
 
First off, Semper Fi!

Secondly, the GySgt is wrong in his statement. When I was in the fleet they always taught us to download the magazines; however, since leaving the Corps I have found this to be unnecessary.

Thirdly, in the fond tradition of the Marine Corps, do what you are told and don't resort to a gun forum for advice. You mention the Citadel in your signature line so I'm assuming that you are an officer - so why overly concern yourself with that of a GySgt unless an MCO states otherwise, I would load to capacity.

Keep it safe and watch 360!
 
my hypothesis: the former military contract checkmate magazines have caused enough feeding problems that it's gone to the point where people have developed medieval superstitions regarding the M9.
 
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You guys have it all wrong. Back in the day we were told to load our M16s with either 19 or 29 rounds depending on the mag capacity. The real reason was the DIs had a real distrust of our counting ability. They were afraid we would jam 21 or 31 rounds into the mag.
 
It all depends on the magazine, it has nothing to do with the weapon itself.

Older, worn out magazines will jam up when you fill them to capacity.

Just like the magazines for your M16, filling your magazines 2-3 rounds short of maximum capacity will decrease the chances of the magazine follower getting stuck.
 
Now wait a moment. Pat Rogers, Scott Reitz and Louis Awerbuck at LEAST reccommend no more than 28 in a 30 round AR mag. Also the PISTOL loading proceedure being: insert mag, chamber a round and pull mag &check to see if top round has changed position on a double stack mag. I have only heard of topping up single stack mags at this point. I always leave extra room in all double stack mags to insure a fully reseated mag. Better listen to the Gunny, it's easy to change mags if you need more than 14 or 15!
 
Gunny was simply trying to reduce the odds of a second round misfeed...and the advice is technically sound.

The most likely place in the magazine to have a malfunction is on the top round from a full mag...and on the bottom round. Those are the two extremes of magazine spring tension.

And, no. You really can't make a blanket statement like that pertaining to all guns and all magazines. If your gun has proven itself with all your carry magazines...go ahead and top it off. FWIW, I don't top off. I lock in a 7-rounder...rack the slide to load the chamber...and thumb the safety on.
That's largely a personal choice based on the logic that...if I have a problem that requires a gun to solve, the odds of needing the second round far outweigh the chances that I'll need the last one.
 
This is the way I was trained and the way I carry all my mags, if the mag has 15rd capacity I load it with fifteen and chamber the top round then all my extra mags I carry loaded with 14 or one short depending on the mag capacity.

There are many reasons to do this and its an old and common debate. I myself would rather be short a couple rounds and guarantee the gun is going to function properly. In a tactical situation I'd rather make it as quick and easy as possible to load and not worry that the action will get hung up trying to strip off that top round. Also if you change mags on a closed action then having a bit of play in the mag spring will make it easier to insert the mag with a nice clean lock. There are other reasons but like I said its an old debate and some people agree with it and others don't. Nobody is looking over my shoulder to tell me how to carry so I do it because it makes sense to me and I trust my instructors.
 
Topping off is something I do when I shoot USPSA and IDPA.
I dont do it with my carry mags but thats kind of laziness.
I can't remember the last malfuntion I had in a USPSA or IDPA match.
 
There are hundreds of thousands of police officers that carry topped off every single day. No one ever hears of a police issue weapon malfunction epidemic because of it. It is nothing to worry about. It is probably more of an issue of if you want to bother with the few extra steps to top it off or just want to quickly toss a mag in and go.
 
The Gunny may be referring to a pistol that was just issued to a soldier from the armory. There's no telling what condition the magazine springs may be in. I would not load a magazine all the way with 15 rounds and rely on it if I had not extensively tested it. Sometimes a soldier might be issued a pistol and for whatever reason, he doesn't have time to test fully. I would personally download it a round or so just in case.

Those that say that nothing could possibly go wrong by loading all the way seem to be referring to their personal pistols, a police officer's pistol, etc. That's fine but that's not always the case in the Army. I've read a number of threads from those who buy their own magazines to take with them before being deployed due to the uncertain condition of some military magazines/springs and the possible lack of availability of good ones.
 
4v50 Gary
1911Tuner

I agree and also shares my take.

Like 1911Tuner, I was raised to use USGI/ Colt 7 rd mags, slap in mag, rack slide and good to go.

I do this with any semi, and it is rare I do +1.
Being a civilian and my "travels" I also sometimes have to unload gun and store, I gotta place to put all ctgs, and not have one left over. Something that is real important, having all rounds accounted for. Folks "strongly prefer" guns locked up not be +1.

Reliability is paramount. Sure my guns all run, and will run +1.
Just Mr. Murphy will always find something, and at the worst possible time have it fail.
Simple is good.
 
Gunny is technically correct given the unknown weapons one may be issued. Remember these are not internet special magazines with super kryptonite zirconium springs that are lovingly stroked in the soft glow of an computer monitor and only loaded on Sunday. Remember Gunny when you take your personal brand new Beretta brand mags with you to the sandbox. Take what you are issued, download them, stick them in a seabag, load up yours, +1 if they work good and you can get the extra ammo accounted for. Good luck when you get out in the Green Machine.
 
Forgot the mention that while a gun may work with +1 with a certain magazine, it may not with a different magazine. Magazines may not remain with a particular soldier and may be returned to the armory. Hence, inconsistency which doesn't ensure reliability with +1. Consider that.
 
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