So what happened to the pump rifle?

[DeepSouth]

While the overwhelming majority of my rifles are fairly modern, think post WW2, the ones I desire most are all older designs like the Sharps, Winchesters, Rolling blocks, basically late 1800’s stuff. The Colt lightning is on top of that list of my grail guns, it has always intrigued me which got me looking at pump action rifles of which there is not a long list.

Anyway, I guess I’m curious why they didn’t catch on, given the popularity of pump shotguns going strong to this day it just seems logical that the same system in a rifle would have caught on and stuck around a bit, at least in the early years.

The most obvious thought is the tube feed ammo issue, but lever actions have that issue and they’re doing pretty good now 150+ years after their inception.

So what do the rifle gurus think, why no love for the pump rifle?

 

[mshootnit]

I think it was the flood of surplus sporterized bolt actions that flooded the market after the world war and an obsession with accuracy. The bolt actions tend to be very accurate, and strong. Pump action guns are popular where quick shots might be necessary, but 400 yd accuracy is not.
But we love our pump shotguns though.

 

[silicosys4]

The problem with pump guns for me is the inherent play in the forearm. Every pump rifle and shotgun I've ever handled has had at least some play in the forearm when locked up. With a shotgun its not an issue. With a rifle it is.
I'd rather have a lever action if I need quick follow up shots, or a semi auto.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

The most obvious thought is the tube feed ammo issue, but lever actions have that issue and they’re doing pretty good now 150+ years after their inception.

I would question that assertion. Been to a gun show lately? Or gun store? Or pawn shop? Black, plastic rifles as far as the eye can see.

So what do the rifle gurus think, why no love for the pump rifle?

1.) As already stated, the pump action doesn't lend itself well to long range accuracy. Hence the domination of the bolt gun in the hunting market.

2.) As hunting wanes in popularity, the semi-auto rifle, of all designs, but the AR15 in partucular, has come to dominate the market space.

I'm not even sure if the pump (really, the "slide action") is, or will continue to be much longer, the dominate design in shotguns.

 

[mgmorden]

Autoloaders are harder to make work in shotguns because of such a difference in gas pressure between different types of rounds. A 2 3/4" trap load is a completely different animal from a 3" 00 buckshot yet both are expected to cycle in the same auto-loader, hence, manual actions are a little more common with shotguns since they have more of a reputation for "just working". For me I won't touch a cheap auto-loading shotgun as from my experience they are nothing but trouble. Cheap pumps - they usually work fine.

Also, for hunting uses (where bolt actions still are the most common rifles), fast followup shots aren't as much as a thing as with most of the type of hunting done with shotguns. As such the speed at which you can reload it just doesn't come into play as much. The fact that a pump handles a little faster than a bolt action just isn't a big deal.

Now, I like some of the older pump action rifles (I really want a Remington 760 in .300 Savage), but mostly for nostalgia factor. For a go-to get work done rifle I still would want the extreme accuracy of a bolt action because hit or miss I'm likely only taking one shot at the animal anyways.

Honestly - its a day I hope we never see, but I think if we ever saw a more widespread ban on semi-auto rifles you'll likely see a lot more engineering and development into various types of manual actions like pumps.

 

[Zygodactyl]

I use a Taurus Thunderbolt (copy of Colt Lightning) in cowboy matches. It works quite well. Taurus got a bad reputation with them, but mine was a good one and I've been using it for about 10 years in the matches. It shoots fairly fast. It is made without a disconnector so it will slam fire if you hold the trigger back as you cycle the action. The downside is, mine is finicky with ammo. I have the best luck with starline brass and you have to use flat tipped bullets. Mine is in 45 Colt and has a tendency to spit gas back at you, so safety glasses are a must.

Because of the reputation, you can usually find them for about 500.00 or less. They are currently out of production.

 

[DeepSouth]

I hadn’t thought about the potential accuracy issues, keep in mind I’ve never even handled one much less shot one. So one day I may buy me a lightning, shoot it twice and understand why they went the way of the dodo.

I have seen the Taurus copy, but being out of production I probably wouldn’t buy one. The reputation of it could be a fault of design to, the pump action on a rifle round could have just been unreliable, unlike its shotty cousin

I would question that assertion. Been to a gun show lately? Or gun store? Or pawn shop? Black, plastic rifles as far as the eye can see

At least half a dozen manufacturers still make them.. definitely doesn’t compare to the nearly unlimited AR manufacturers but it is still pretty good. Imo.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

At least half a dozen manufacturers still make them.. definitely doesn’t compare to the nearly unlimited AR manufacturers but it is still pretty good. Imo.

Assuming that is true, it's not terribly relevant (much like the design). There may be x manufacturers, but their products are what? 1%? 5% of total rifle sales? (I don't actually know the market share numbers, nor is it important enough for me to research it; I used these numbers as hypotheticals to illustrate my argument.) So I don't think I would say that's "still pretty good."

But, as you stated earlier, it went the way of the do-do for a reason.

 

[eastbank]

my rem pumps are not going any where soon, fingers never leaving the trigger area, sight picture retained and accurret enough for a 300 yard shot if needed.

 

[H&Hhunter]

I’ve got a buddy who’s a lefty, he has had piles of pump action rifles over the years. I’ve never seen one that I’d consider “accurate”as compared to a good bolt action rifle.

As Eastbank said the handy makes them accurate enough for some purposes. But in todays world of sub MOA everything I think they’d be a hard sell.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Honestly - its a day I hope we never see, but I think if we ever saw a more widespread ban on semi-auto rifles you'll likely see a lot more engineering and development into various types of manual actions like pumps.

They already make "pump action" AR variants for various overseas markets.

 

[hq]

But in todays world of sub MOA everything I think they’d be a hard sell.

When I gave up on splitting hairs and concentrated in practical, sufficient accuracy, my personal happiness factor improved substantially. The 7600 is one manifestation of that. It'll still put a 250-grainer through the heart of a moose at 300yd if I do my part of the job and controlled follow-up shots are way faster than with any bolt gun.

Most of my guns are semi autos but sometimes I also hunt in countries where they're verboten, so a pump is a great alternative and has completely replaced some of my bolt and lever guns.

Unless I find nice, fancy walnut furniture to replace the camo synthetic on it (damn US export regulations) I'll probably get a Krieghoff Semprio at some point too.

 

[jmr40]

A few reasons. Individually no one reason may be enough to explain the lack of popularity, but combined it is easy to see why most shooters moved toward bolt action rifles.

Shotguns are very low pressure compared to rifle rounds. Pump guns do not have the ability to extract a sticky cartridge case nearly as well as a bolt rifle. That is rarely a problem with low pressure shotshells. While a pump shotgun is respected for reliability, a pump rifle with modern high-pressure cartridges is not. I wouldn't use one in harsh dirty conditions where having a reliable rifle is a must.

Shotguns are not aimed but are pointed at moving targets and always shot off hand. Rifles are aimed and whenever possible some type of support is encouraged. Pump shotguns do a great job of this, but because of the motion necessary to extract and chamber another round pump rifles are at a serious disadvantage.

Rate of fire: Compared to more popular bolt rifles there is no real-world difference in the rate of AIMED repeat fire. If the goal is to simply empty the magazine in a hurry a pump is faster than a bolt rifle. But if the goal is to hit a target with multiple shots there is no difference in how fast an EXPERIENCED bolt rifle shooter can do that. Most people never practice shooting a bolt gun fast and would be surprised at how fast it can be done.

And if fired from prone, or any supported position a bolt gun is faster than any other manually operated rifle. Shooting from trenches or behind other cover was a big part of the reason the military never seriously considered pump or lever guns.

Weight: All things being equal a pump is heavier.

Accuracy: While some pump rifles are noted for better than average accuracy, they won't quite match a bolt rifle.

Cost: It is simply less expensive to put together an accurate bolt rifle than a pump rifle.

 

[Scout21]

-Cheap bolt guns

-Bolt actions tend to be more accurate

-If you're going to go with a manually operated action that isn't a bolt action, might as well do a lever action and get that sweet nostalgia of the wild, wild West.

-If you want a fast shooting gun that isn't a lever action a semi auto is an obvious choice.

-The pump action is seen as best suited for shotguns, not rifles. Not many people could probably tell you why that is, but when 99% of rifles that you see aren't pump action, it's odd when you see one that is.

-They aren't popular, so it dissuades manufacture, which makes them not popular, which dissuades manufacture, which makes them not popular. This can be seen across the firearms industry, and especially in the ammunition industry. Anybody source .44 rimfire ammo lately? Even .300 Savage is difficult to find, and it was fairly popular up through at least the seventies. Demand generally drives what you see on the market.

A family member has one that they absolutely cherish and has used it extensively and it certainly shows. It gets an inch or less with the right hunting ammo. The platform definitely has its devout followers.

I've played with a few different models and, while I like the design in concept, I've never had a use for one. If I wanted accuracy and strength I'd use a bolt action. If I wanted rate of fire I'd use a semi auto. I can certainly see the appeal if one dislikes a lever action and lives where semi autos are banned/regulated.

Ultimately I think pump rifles are too niche to really have much market share. I'm sure that if "cowboys" used pump rifles in place of lever actions we'd see far more pump rifles today while far less lever actions.

As a bit of an aside, I've always thought that Winchester would be a prime candidate to roll out a nice pump rifle, particularly under the Browning brand with Browning's distinctive style and craftsmanship.

 

[hq]

Rate of fire: Compared to more popular bolt rifles there is no real-world difference in the rate of AIMED repeat fire. If the goal is to simply empty the magazine in a hurry a pump is faster than a bolt rifle. But if the goal is to hit a target with multiple shots there is no difference in how fast an EXPERIENCED bolt rifle shooter can do that.

Maybe I'm not experienced enough but specifically the hit ratio of aimed shots went up in driven hunts when I switched from bolt to lever and improved by a crazy margin when I adopted the pump.

By "driven" I mean central European hog hunts where 10...20 aimed shots a minute at hogs, red stags and fallow deer running past you at full speed isn't that uncommon. The ultimate acid test for the handling and repeat shot capabilities of a firearm, when you can't just blast away hoping for the best but have to acquire a sight picture, take lead, aim, fire and chamber another round in a window of seconds. Wash, rinse, repeat, until you run out of ammo or the drive is over.

My round count in hunts like these has been between fifty and sixty, with over twenty hogs, a couple of red stags and fallow deers and maybe a few jackals down in a day.

The only mod the 7600 has needed is a pocketful of extra 10rd mags. Filling just two or three 4-rounders on the fly slows you down too much.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I have pumps,bolt actions,lever actions and semi-autos. Im happy with them all. Heck i even like my single shot rifles.

 

[Hasaf]

I have one, a Remington Fieldmaster in .22:


It costs more than a .22 AR, however, I find it a lot more enjoyable to shoot. That said, I can understand it not being a "go-to" choice for most people. There is the cost, and there is an overall different feel. Even though it isn't that old, it feels old.

One other thing that I can see as a real problem for a lot of people is the tube magazine and indoor ranges. There is a range that I went to that required all firearms to be pointed downrange at all times when out of a case. That sounds sane until you ask the question, how do I load this thing?

To load it, it has to be pointed upward, not at the backstop. Once I realized that, at that range, I could not use tube-fed or muzzleloaders, I was fine. But it was a restriction. However, when I go to other places, I almost always bring it, as I said above, it just has a different feel to it. I like it, but I would be hesitant to recommend one. Either you know that you want one, or you probably don't want one.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I have a field master too love it. I have a little Rossi gallery gun too. Nice hiking rifle.

 

[DeepSouth]

For those of you have them I haven’t seen anyone mention them being unreliable. So would I be correct to assume they feed and extract reliably?

They already make "pump action" AR variants for various overseas markets.

I had no idea they made such animals, I suppose they’ll probably be in California in a few years.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

I think the lever vs. pump question is a good place to start. Get used to the phrase 'I think' here because this is just my observations and opinions.

Winchester et al got there firstest with the mostest, making a solid place in the market with leverguns before a competing pump design. The Winchester 73 in particular had a refined design lineage, with iterations going back to the Hunt, Jennings and Volcanic. By comparison, the Colt Lightning hit the market over 30 years later. It differed in operation in ways that worked against its popularity in the early repeating rifle market.

The lever action arrived on the shotgun market late and did not prove particularly well suited to the task. While the Spencer pump shotgun actually reached the market before Winchester's 1893 and '97, it was the latter that really sold American hunters on the idea of a magazine repeating shotgun. I'm not really a shotgun guy, but I'd guess the 1897's smooth action and straight-line operation were better suited to shooting at birds in flight than anything that came before.

The pump rifle was a more popular option in rimfire than centerfire, beginning its popularity run with the Browning-designed Winchester 1890. It had an advantage over early autoloading .22s like the Winchester 1903 in that it could function with a much wider range of ammunition. Winchester introduced their .22 Winchester Automatic cartridge for this reason. While there are still a few .22 LR pump rifles on the market, I'm pretty sure most of their potential customer base gradually switched over to autoloaders once smokeless rimfire ammo became more consistent and rifle prices dropped.

The next wave of pump-action centerfire rifles were marketed primarily by Remington, starting with a series of John Pederson designs. These are fascinating guns that worked well enough, but they are kind of weird and the mechanics are hard to understand. Check out the animation sequence from this video:



They had a degree of popularity, but didn't really challenge the lever action in the minds of most American sportsmen. You would think they would appeal to the police market that used pump shotguns, but I don't know whether many large police sales ever materialized.

Anyway, Remington has stayed with the pump-action centerfire rifle all through the rest of the 20th century and beyond -- the 7600 was still going when Remington went Chapter 11, and given the demand in some markets (eg Australia) the .223 Remington 7615 might see a limited comeback someday.

The 7615 was a box-magazine pump, a concept that currently has a smallish market as one of the manually-operated black rifle configurations. It's appeal is largely as a legal workaround in restricted markets, but it has the manual repeater's advantage of operating with a wider range of ammunition than an autoloader. It was one of the reasons I bought my Troy PAR -- the action will function the same with just about any .223/5.56 handload. Not much of a advantage I grant, but I also got a pistol grip and folding stock out of the deal.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

For those of you have them I haven’t seen anyone mention them being unreliable. So would I be correct to assume they feed and extract reliably?

Ive shot both an original, heavily worn 1906 Winchester and a Rossi copy from the 90s, both .22LR, both cycled perfectly and were tons of fun for casual plinking but certainly not precision rimfires.
Also had a Remington 760 in .30-06 and it was terrible. Poor accuracy, difficult extraction, brutal recoil and it busted my knuckle everytime I tried to pull the magazine. Couldnt dump that steaming pile fast enough.
Never shoulda let go of the Rossi for sure!

 

[DeepSouth]

Winchester et al got there firstest with the mostest, making a solid place in the market with leverguns before a competing pump design. The Winchester 73 in particular had a refined design lineage, with iterations going back to the Hunt, Jennings and Volcanic. By comparison, the Colt Lightning hit the market over 30 years later. It differed in operation in ways that worked against its popularity in the early repeating rifle market.

I have to admit, one of my thoughts is if John Browning had done for the slide action what he did for the lever action we may be having the exact opposite question.

As in “Why didn’t the lever guns have the popularity of the pump rifle?” but it could also easily be the better of the two won the popularity contest… having no experience with a pump rifle at all I have a lot of ignorance and room for incorrect speculation. I obviously need to buy me a couple of pump rifles…. I’ll go tell the wife now.
And that was a very informative post, thank you for it.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I have to admit, one of my thoughts is if John Browning had done for the slide action what he did for the lever action we may be having the exact opposite question.

As in “Why didn’t the lever guns have the popularity of the pump rifle?” but it could also easily be the better of the two won the popularity contest… having no experience with a pump rifle at all I have a lot of ignorance and room for incorrect speculation. I obviously need to buy me a couple of pump rifles…. I’ll go tell the wife now.
And that was a very informative post, thank you for it.

The Winchester 06 pump was a Browning design, there are probably others.

 

[HowieG]

As far as high powered rifles go, Remington manufactured pump rifles concurrent to their semiauto rifles starting in 1912 (Model 14). A pump shooter could get that rifle in the exact same chamberings as the semiauto Model 8 (25, 30, 32, and 35 REM). Back in the day, up through the 1960s, a pump rifle made lots of sense. The action matched the pump shotguns that 99 % of us were using at the time, so it was comfortable and familiar. The pump rifle was accurate enough, reliable, and offered a rapidity of fire right up there with the semis and the lever guns. It was obviously popular enough from a sales point of view. If that wasn't true, Remington would not have continued to make them for a hundred plus years.

As stated above, and I agree with, the situation started to change with the beginning of the AR15 age. The kids only love black plastic guns (or no guns at all outside of Xbox). Bolt guns hang on because they offer accuracy and power that can exceed the AR15/10, but black guns are king. There is a certain sameness creeping into life now that I despise. All the guns and all the cars are starting to look alike. It's depressing.

By the way, California won't let pump version AR15s into the state either, because they have the dreaded pistol grip and other AR features.

 

[someguy2800]

When I gave up on splitting hairs and concentrated in practical, sufficient accuracy, my personal happiness factor improved substantially.

That is where I am at. Shooting steel at 200 yards with a Mosin Nagant brings me more enjoyment than measuring my group sizes with a caliper. I obsessed over small groups for years and finally realized the juice was not worth all the squeezing.