So what is wrong with Alliant!

[Rule3]

Sounds good to me, but then I wasn't the one doing the whining. That's one of the things I've noticed most about the internet and social media. Once a great source of information and communication, it seems to have become just a place for venting frustrations and complaining about everything from the weather to yep, free reloading information. It has basically turned us into a society of whiners....

Geeze you still can't leave it alone. Many replies grasped what I was talking about but apparently you have not, I was not whining just making a statement, You are stuck on this for free nonsense.Maybe you should actually read the posts before telling someone to go buy a manual.
So I guess from now on there shall be no posts critical of anything, any product or business, If you feel that way about the internet than forums are not the place for you. Pick up a old copy of Pollyanna and read it over and over.

Actually Alliant used to be ATK but is now under Vista Outdoors, so it's good to keep your corporations straight.

 

[AnselHazen]

Hmm...

That is interesting...Some of us in the past have eMailed Alliant and asked specific questions such as 'charge weight of Red Dot with a 147gr FMJ in 9MM', and received specific answers that correspond to their older data...

My correspondence with them may indeed have been before the date of your contact (I believe it was), and they may indeed have decided to change their tune about their older data...

Since the Speer merger, ATK (ALliant) has only published data for Speer bullets, and only with a select few powders...

As with any old data, use at your own risk...

I too have emailed and asked Alliant for specific load data using one of their newer powders. At first I got an answer indicating we don't have a load for that combination but will submit the request. Later another reply when I asked for their input cross referencing another similar bullet of the same grain. At that point it was pretty much the boiler plate we don't recommend anything but the exact combination tested and published. And nothing heard since.

I want to use their powder but hey, I'm not going to buy their products if it sits on the shelf.

 

[RealGun]

So what is wrong with Alliant!

I know this has been mentioned before but it seems the only powder that want you to use is BE 86!

Go to their website to look up loads say in this case 40 SW 165 gr FMJ.

For the 180 gr bullet they give you some other choices.

It gives you one choice BE 86!! How about power pistol, unique or all the other good powders. BE 86 the new wonder do all powder

Guess that's why I buy mostly Hodgdon powders.

I have the old Alliant data, and the 165 gr bullet is not there at all. Maybe the real issue is the odd bullet. Other bullet weights/types list variety in powder choices. Of the many weights listed in the diverse Lee manual collection, the 165 gr is not there either.

Yes, the site definitely has some issues. For example, I found that I needed to use the browser back button rather than the BACK link on the page.

After all that, I expect BE-86 is a good choice for your loading. My LGS has had it regularly, so I doubt Alliant is remiss in your locating any. The store's buyer has to take an interest, so maybe speak to the staff about it.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Not a lot of people know about BE-86. About a year ago, I was at a gun show. A dealer had a good selection of Alliant powder. BE-86 was marked at $22. Unique, Power Pistol, ect was priced at $27/$28. The guy said he hadn't sold a single pound of BE-86. He said no one knew what it was. I bought all he had for $21 a pound.

 

[Hondo 60]

I emailed Alliant & asked for a paper copy of their data.
They are more than happy to do so.
Lotsa data all in one place.
With this link you can download a .pdf copy or request a paper copy.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/books_instruction.aspx

Happy Reloading!

 

[AnselHazen]

I picked up a set of Lee locking rings I special ordered from a LGS today. Saw some powder on a shelf and we had a little conversation. Was told the powder/reloading area was going to grow. Offered to order stuff. I asked for BE-86.

 

[vaalpens]

There is nothing wrong with Alliant, just their website is not that good.

When I look for Alliant data then I will make sure I have another source to confirm my load, but I won't just use the Alliant website load data.

Their website load data could be accurate, but I am not comfortable yet to accept their data as gospel.

For most of the load data I'm never sure if I should start at 10% below MAX, or even lower. For now I would normally start at 15% below MAX, unless I have other collaborating data.

It is true that they have removed some data. I was looking for Bullseye load data in 357sig, but they had nothing. The old Alliant data had some 357sig data, which I used. I even asked Alliant about why they removed it from their data. They couldn't tell me, but they also stated by removing it they did not indicate that it should not be used in 357sig, but just that there are better powders to use. I assume BE-86.

 

[AnselHazen]

Well something just jumped out at me. I have the 2014 and 2015 PDF load data from Alliant. All they give is a max load. All my other reference material gives a starting or minimum load and a max load. What's up with that?

 

[ljnowell]

Well something just jumped out at me. I have the 2014 and 2015 PDF load data from Alliant. All they give is a max load. All my other reference material gives a starting or minimum load and a max load. What's up with that?

If you read the text in the manual, or any manual for that matter, it will tell you that when the only data given is max you are to reduce the max charge by ten percent and work up from there.

This is slightly different for 296/110.

 

[RealGun]

This is slightly different for 296/110.

And we don't really know about 300-MP.

 

[Lj1941]

All the manufacturers pale in comparison to Hodgdon. I don't understand why all their data isn't online. You'd think they'd want it there so people stay w/in spec.

The parent company ATK I believe is involved with a lot more than just powder. Propellants are just a very small part of their total picture. I am sure that they concentrate on the more profitable part of their total line of products. All you really need are their maximum loads and you can work from there.

 

[ljnowell]

And we don't really know about 300-MP.

Until something is said different I would treat it by regular rules. Alliants other magnum powders follow those guidelines.

 

[Rule3]

Do people actually read the first page of the online guide?????


REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

This information is actually free!

 

[dragon813gt]

This is slightly different for 296/110.

And Hodgdon has removed the guidelines from their website and printed manual. There used to be a disclaimer on the first page of the Reloading Data Center. Now there is nothing in writing to be found. Very scary when you think about it. Thankfully they list start loads for almost all the applications.

 

[RealGun]

re 300-MP - Until something is said different I would treat it by regular rules. Alliants other magnum powders follow those guidelines.

Don't want to start a sidebar, but unless I find a load with some official wrapper, I don't use it. There is no load data for lead that I know of, and I can tell you not to mess with any extrapolation assumptions. I use the Hornady loads for XTPs and nothing else. Alliant says nothing about lead or how narrow the load range really is. One stuck bullet was enough, and the bullies were piling on me for using that powder in that way.

 

[AnselHazen]

The parent company ATK I believe is involved with a lot more than just powder. Propellants are just a very small part of their total picture. I am sure that they concentrate on the more profitable part of their total line of products. All you really need are their maximum loads and you can work from there.

Look up Vista Outdoors. It's quite a collection of companies.

 

[ljnowell]

Don't want to start a sidebar, but unless I find a load with some official wrapper, I don't use it. There is no load data for lead that I know of, and I can tell you not to mess with any extrapolation assumptions. I use the Hornady loads for XTPs and nothing else. Alliant says nothing about lead or how narrow the load range really is. One stuck bullet was enough, and the bullies were piling on me for using that powder in that way.

I haven't messed with it just because of the lack of real data from other sources. The only thing I see is Alliants data most of the time.

I held high hopes for it I high pressure 45 colt loads, but decided to just stick with my 2400 instead. It's truly the best for it anyway.

 

[Jlr2267]

I haven't messed with it just because of the lack of real data from other sources. The only thing I see is Alliants data most of the time.

I held high hopes for it I high pressure 45 colt loads, but decided to just stick with my 2400 instead. It's truly the best for it anyway.

I tried working up loads in 45 Colt with 300MP (for a Redhawk). My experience was not good so I gave it up. I heard later that Alliant experimented with 45 Colt and also had trouble with erratic behavior...don't know if they ever published loads for it.

 

[ljnowell]

I tried working up loads in 45 Colt with 300MP (for a Redhawk). My experience was not good so I gave it up. I heard later that Alliant experimented with 45 Colt and also had trouble with erratic behavior...don't know if they ever published loads for it.

Interesting. From the burn rate I would expect issues in standard pressure 45 Colt, but I would think that if performed well in 44 mag it would do well in 45 colt. Sometimes you just don't know. They say this is a science, sometimes I don't think so.

 

[TimSr]

The old free Hercules booklets weren't very detailed, but at least they gave you a starting point for about every Hercules powder that was suitable for a given caliber. Now you usually get one or two of THEIR choices, and ommitting a lot of good ones. I just added .380 to my loadlist, and I'm not about to run out an buy a pound of new powder when I already load a dozen pistol calibers and have several good powders on hand. I used Red Dot after consulting old Hercules data, and cross referencing it Lyman's data for not quite so simiar bullets. I also sucks to spend $30 on a new shrink wrapped manual only to find the load you're lookng for is not even listed.

 

[MDof2]

Agreed.
I've got a bulk of Power Pistol powder that I've used on 165g which I'd like to try with some 180's but can't find any data on them.

 

[RealGun]

Agreed.
I've got a bulk of Power Pistol powder that I've used on 165g which I'd like to try with some 180's but can't find any data on them.

If our context is still 40 S&W, I have been loading 180 FMJ-TC and Power Pistol from the outset some years back. If you are referring to 180 lead, my guns probably would not run very well with them, and I don't have the recommended barrel for my Glock. On the Kahrs, I have the premium, polygonal rifled barrels, and the guns come with instructions not to use lead.

See Alliant under Power Pistol "recipes"

 

[MDof2]

@RealGun
Yes, 40S&W with 180g BERB using Power Pistol.
Alliant's data refers only to GDHP bullets, rather than round nose / FMJ.

Hornady's book starts me at 6.1g for 950fps.

What are you loading your 180g FMJ's with with?

 

[RealGun]

Yes, 40S&W with 180g BERB using Power Pistol.
Alliant's data refers only to GDHP bullets, rather than round nose / FMJ.

Am still thinking about the meaning of BERB, but all that matters, aside from diameter, within a given weight is whether the bearing surface of the bullet is copper or lubricated lead. In other words GDHP and any other jacketed bullet of that weight could safely use the same data.

The Lee manual contains loads for 180 grain lead, including 6.6-6.9 gr of Power Pistol.

My 180 FMJ-TC load is 6.0 gr of Power Pistol. I took that load from Hornady #9.

 

[dh1633pm]

I tried Reloader 15 for my 308. I was able to get better results with IMR4895. I have also used Bullseye in my 45-70 with excellent results. I think I will try some of their powders again in the future. Their containers are too tall for my shelves, but otherwise they seem to make a nice product. My dad uses Bullseye and Unique a lot.