So You Wanna Be A Sheepdog

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Treo

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I was watching C.O.P.S tonight and I got a real wake up call.
Now remember this was C.O.P.S not the news so they didn't give all the details, but here's the basic story.
Two guys start throwing chingasos in the parking lot of a Quickey Mart. One's dating the cashier, one had a baby W/her.

Anyway some parking lot hero W/ a CCW decides to intervene to stop the fight & somebody calls the cops. The 2 ex-cons fighting walk W/ dis-orderly conduct citations, while our hero the sheepdog is arrested for aggrevated menacing and unlawful transportation ( I haven't a clue what that means somebody from Cincinatti familiar W/ the term? ) of a weapon.

Some thing to think about before you get involved in a fight that isn't yours
 
chingasos? Is that a typo or am I missing something?
Anywho, agreed, it's USUALLY best to not get involved, especialy if no one is at risk of death or serious injury and even moreso if the incident involves complete stangers where you may not have the whole story on who the real BG is, as it could be both of them, or not the one it appears to be.
 
chingasos?

Spanish, for names, that are not high road, that are exchanged with another person in anger over a specific situation.
 
Yep, the guy stopped to help break up a fight and somehow ended up claiming he was in fear for his life.

Not to poke holes in your post treo, but sheepdogs don't care about their own personal safely, livelihood, and taking care of their own families which can be lost because of such acts. Their responsibility is to anyone in need because they are nothing more than dogs and don't actually have higher level reasoning like humans.

If you want to be a sheepdog, drop 60 points of your IQ and you are good to go. You can then enjoy other sheepdog behaviors like eating carrion and snifing the tails of the other dogs and sheep and then going to jail for sexual harrassment because humans don't go for that sort of thing.
 
Dude, after that kind of comment, I'm gonna sic my two border collies on you. They just read the post before sitting down to dinner with the family and, they were pretty offended at such a low description. They told me that when they finish loading the dish-washer (everybody has chores), they wanted to go out for a while. I figure they're going to log onto their lap tops and do some triangulation...

Ash
 
I saw that COPS episode too, but the guy with the CCW wasn't random - he told the cops that he knew both guys that were fighting and was trying to get one of the guys out of there. Sounded to me like there was a history between all parties involved, so it wasn't heroics by a random passerby.

The two guys fighting and the one with the CCW had 3 brain-cells between them, so I don't think the cop's decision for that situation with a CCW would apply to all CCW situations.
 
I must have been in the bathroom when they said the 3 knew each other. I heard the guy saying that he pulled his pistol to stop the fight, and some one grabbed him around the neck. Then he said something about trying to chamber a round & not knowing if he did or not, so he threw the gun down.

Like I said this was C.O.P.S , you don't really expect them to portray a CHP holder in a positive light do you?

My wake up call, regardless of who knew who & who was an idiot (all 3 IMO). Was here's a guy that thought his CHP gave him some kind of police authority & who thought that brandishing a weapon would automatically make people do what he wanted. He's probably not alone in those two very wrong assumptions , I expect some of the "sheep dogs" that post here fall into the same catagory , hence the cautionary tail.

ETA I think there might even be something here for the " I can get one chambered before he can get to me " crowd
 
Other witnesses at the scene said that the CCW licensee was brandishing (waving the gun around). The gun owner's story was more innocent sounding. His story that he was being pulled from his car couldn't be corroborated by other witnesses.

Therefore, it is questionable that anyone's life was in danger at the scene to justify bringing a weapon into play.

Just trying to show what the cops were probably thinking... not defending them or the slopeheads involved.

I wondered if this was an old show. Until less than a year ago, weapons of Ohio CCW holders had to be a) locked in a compartment; or b) laying on the seat in plain sight. Could not be concealed on your person or elsewhere in the car unless it was locked up.

That law was stupid and was changed last year.
 
Then he said something about trying to chamber a round & not knowing if he did or not, so he threw the gun down.
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???? There's a clue right there that the CHP holder wasn't in fear for his life. Where did he learn that part of a malfunction drill was "throw the gun down"? On the other hand, if we could get the bad guys to pick up on that... ("Okay, how'd that go? Tap, rack, throw the gun down...") :D

Was here's a guy that thought his CHP gave him some kind of police authority & who thought that brandishing a weapon would automatically make people do what he wanted. He's probably not alone in those two very wrong assumptions , I expect some of the "sheep dogs" that post here fall into the same catagory , hence the cautionary tail.
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Sadly, I think you're correct about a certain small percentage of the CHP community. Hopefully if they lurk around here and read very much they at least get information that will correct their misconceptions.
 
Yep, the guy stopped to help break up a fight and somehow ended up claiming he was in fear for his life.

Not to poke holes in your post treo, but sheepdogs don't care about their own personal safely, livelihood, and taking care of their own families which can be lost because of such acts. Their responsibility is to anyone in need because they are nothing more than dogs and don't actually have higher level reasoning like humans.

If you want to be a sheepdog, drop 60 points of your IQ and you are good to go. You can then enjoy other sheepdog behaviors like eating carrion and snifing the tails of the other dogs and sheep and then going to jail for sexual harrassment because humans don't go for that sort of thing.
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I need a new keyboard! Got green tea all over mine:cool:. Very nice insight into mindless behavior masquerading as bravery.
 
Perhaps we have misunderstandings about what it is to be a sheep dog? The way I look at it a "sheep dog" protects a previously defined group of sheep. Some of these are friends and relatives; others are assigned morally. For example most of those I believe you are labeling as "sheep dogs" would not have intervened in a shouting match between grown men. They simply have honor and morals not to stand by and look out for number one while a woman is raped, a child kidnapped, or an elderly person is beaten by a group of thugs. That does not mean that they go charging off into the dark with their surefire, glock 9mm, and super tacti-cool Mossberg 500 every time they hear shots, that would be the mall ninjas. We have quite a bit less of those here. Those I would call "sheep dogs" are not out to be heroes, they simply feel that it is better to die with honor than to live without it.
 
An idiot with a CCW is still an idiot. :banghead:

The only justifiable reason for the CCW idiot to pull a gun was if one of the other morons pulled a gun/knife, and even then it's questionable.

Just because you bought a gun, took a course and passed the Sheriff's background check doesn't mean you have a brain. :rolleyes:
 
I figure they're going to log onto their lap tops and do some triangulation...
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Do you sell puppies?

Perhaps we have misunderstandings about what it is to be a sheep dog? The way I look at it a "sheep dog" protects a previously defined group of sheep.
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The sheepdog reference is to a story recounted by David Grossman in "On Killing" that was supposedly said by somebody else. It is an analogous story about whether the listener is a sheep, sheepdog, or wolf. Many citizens think it should be a story about them in a hero role as a sheepdog, but the story is a military/police based story where cops and the military are professionally slated in their protective roles, like sheepdogs. That is apparently the original intent.

The problems with the story are numerous. It oversimplifies the notion that anyone who isn't engage in active defense is either a criminal or a mindless flock following and defenseless sheep. It completely negates the fact that the sheep are basically being held in concentration camps where they are imprisoned as livestock to be fleeced or butchered at the will of the rancher (a component not mentioned in the story as the evil overlord or commanding officer of the sheepdogs) and the sheepdogs do protect the sheep, but only at the command of their overload and only because the sheep are a valuable commodity to the overlord, not because the sheepdogs particularly care about sheep or have a sense or duty to the sheep. Their duty is to their master who doesn't love the sheep either. It is the primary role of the sheepdog not to protect the sheep, but to influence control over them for the overlord. They are the guards. This isn't all that different to slave owners in the south that protected their slaves so long as it suited them, using their sheepdog guards to do so.

The whole sheepdog analogy is just downright oversimplified to the point of ignorance. Grossman and some gun folks look at the role of the sheepdog as if it was some higher standard, but if applied to our society, those that hold others against their will and not for any crimes against society are not good people, but that what a sheepdog does. The sheepdog only protects the sheep from the wolves, not from the rancher. Go figure.

A sheepdog is nothing but a henchman, but a very useful one TO THE RANCHER, not to the sheep.
 
It is always a good idea to consider information, thank you for the post.

they simply feel that it is better to die with honor than to live without it.
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- very well said

Many citizens think it should be a story about them, but the story is a military/police based story where cops and the military are professionally slated in their protective roles, like sheepdogs.
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while I think it is primarily intended to be applied to military and police in the article it can also be applied to others, the Colonel in the article is retired but is still a sheepdog.

Some police and military are sheepdogs, they are professions sheepdogs are drawn to but not everyone in those professions is one and not everyone that is a sheepdog is a LEO or in the military.

A society has an obligation to protect itself and each other, the police and law enforcement agencies are simply a formal establishment to do that, in my opinion it does not relieve the individual responsibility, whether the response be to call the police or to become individually involved.

The responsible person is aware of the law, and has carefully thought through when and how they would get involved in most situations and should be able to think on the fly. We do not go blindly charging into situations that can be resolved without us or inappropriately use force.

Moreover a person that is likely to become involved in certain situations should have accepted there may be political, legal, and financial repercussions from that involvement, it shouldn't be and in most cases isn't news to us.
 
Was here's a guy that thought his CHP gave him some kind of police authority & who thought that brandishing a weapon would automatically make people do what he wanted. He's probably not alone in those two very wrong assumptions , I expect some of the "sheep dogs" that post here fall into the same catagory , hence the cautionary tail.

Sadly, I think you're correct about a certain small percentage of the CHP community. Hopefully if they lurk around here and read very much they at least get information that will correct their misconceptions.
Click to expand...

Part of being a good sheepdog is just knowing when to let the wolves tear themselves to peices. The more proper reponse from our mall ninja friend would have been just to observe and call the police, only getting involved if someone REALLY was about to be seriously injured/killed (say someones down on the ground while getting kicked in the head) it gets complecated is the one getting his ass handed to him also instagated the fight, and even then im not sure I would intervine.
 
I don't see the sheepdog analogy as pertinent to this. The guy with the handgun wasn't protecting an innocent or non-combatant third party.

And this thread has pretty much had little to do with anything legal since way, way back...

:), Art
 
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