Soft Lead & Powder Coat

[bersaguy]

Does anyone here have experience trying powder coating pure lead bullets for revolvers? I was thinking about casting some 158g flat points with the pure lead I have and Eastwood powder coat. I would think they'd be pretty effective at mid range 357 velocities.

 

[AJC1]

Does anyone here have experience trying powder coating pure lead bullets for revolvers? I was thinking about casting some 158g flat points with the pure lead I have and Eastwood powder coat. I would think they'd be pretty effective at mid range 357 velocities.

Yes and no. I have cast a lot of low bhn bullets but never pure lead. Pure lead is used a lot in black powder. Bhn 8 is great for low pressure loads in 38 and 45. I have cast and shot these two a lot. These are the current limits of first hand knowledge.

 

[243winxb]

Pure lead will produce the smallest as cast bullet diameter, as bullets drop from the mold. Diameter most important.

No experence with powder coat.

 

[LNK]

I have used harbor freight red with pure lead bullets. Works great, and adds a couple thou' to the diameter. Go for it. No leading as the slug bumps up when fired as it is so soft.

 

[bersaguy]

Thanks for the quick replies! I have some time to cast next week, I'll let you know how it goes. Really interested what kind of terminal effect that might have. I'll try them out on some wet newspaper, see what happens.

 

[forrest r]

I'm a huge fan of cast bullets in the 357's!!!

Very seldom do I run pure lead in my revolver/pistols. I do use a 8/9bhn alloy for 90%+ of my shooting needs. That 8/9bhn alloy is:
+/- .25% tin (fill out)
+/- 1% antimony (strength)

This alloy has served me well for decades in several different calibers in the 25,000psi & lower range. When I start getting into loads over 25,000psi the design of the bullet and the alloy start coming into play. Even with pc the bullet can start to skid. You will see evidence of this by looking at the grooves left in the bullet by the lands. If they look even/same size the bullet didn't skid. If they are wider then the lands then the alloy started to fail. If they are normal in 1 area and wider in another are of the bullet then the bullet design failed with that alloy.

A good thing to do is to run a batch of pc'd bullets and let 1/2 of them air coll. The other 1/2 dump into a buck of cold water as soon as they come out of the oven. Another good reason to use +/- 1% antimony. The air cooled will come out 8/9bhn and the water dropped +/- 12bhn. Now you can do some head to head testing, the target will tell you everything you need to know.

Did I mention that I'm a huge fan of cast bullets in the 357's??? Well same goes for the 38spl's, just sayin.

FWIW:
22lr bullets are typically made out of a alloy of pure lead and 1% to 1 1/2% antimony.

 

[MEHavey]

You'd be amazed at how fast/hard you can push PC'd pure lead.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sh...-Lead-amp-PC&p=5001471&viewfull=1#post5001471
Absolutely spotless/mirror bore on one dry patch.

(Note that I do simple shake/bake on parchment paper so the base of the bullet is also PC'd)

 

[Jesse Heywood]

If you have a spray gun you can follow these instructions, eliminating the steps for tumbling. You will need ground your tray using foil.

How to powder coat cast bullets

Items needed.

Cast bullets
Powder coating powder
A # 5 recycled plastic tub w/ lid (COOL-WHIP plastic tub is a good one)
A pair of hemostats or needle nose pliers
A toaster oven
A pkg of NON-STICK Aluminum tin foil or parchment paper
A pkg of plastic air soft BB'S (regular steel BB'S can be used)

Let's get started first with the dry tumble method.....

1. Place a layer of BB's in the bottom of the COOL-WHIP container
2. Add a couple of teaspoons of powder.
3. Add approx: 20 cast bullets into the container ( Add more powder if needed or if more is needed later)
4. Close lid and shake for approx: 1 to two minutes
5. Open lid and check results.
6. If bullets appear coated....Take hemostats and pickup one coated bullet. Tapping the held coated bullet against the container's edge to remove any excess powder.
7. Next I set the coated bullet onto a tray covered with parchment paper or NON-STICK Aluminum foil. (Non-stick side up on tray.)
8. After filling the tray with the coated bullets it is time to place them in a preheated toaster oven set to 400 degrees for approx: 20 minutes.

Dry the coated bullets and resize them again
They are now ready to be loaded into a finished bullet.
Pistol bullets with flat bases are easy to coat with this dry tumble method Simply coat and set onto covered tray and bake.

I have never used pure lead, but it should work with low velocity loads.You might want to read Fryxell's write up. http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

 

[edwardware]

Not pure, but soft. I find, in agreement with others, that PC makes a bullet "act harder" than lube.

 

[MEHavey]

A cushion of AirSoft bb's makes all the difference in quick-easy PC-prep/powder transfer...



About 40sec of Shake`n Swirl

 

[bluejay75]

The lead itself has a FPS and a pressure threshold. I learned this early from Ranchdogs website. He had the figures based on alloy and how many PSIs they could take. The powdercoat will keep it from leading, but a pure bullet at 357 magnum pressures is going to start throwing wild shots as the lead either gives way to the pressure or skids over the rifling.

No doubt it will work but there are much better uses for pure lead IMHO.

 

[AJC1]

The lead itself has a FPS and a pressure threshold. I learned this early from Ranchdogs website. He had the figures based on alloy and how many PSIs they could take. The powdercoat will keep it from leading, but a pure bullet at 357 magnum pressures is going to start throwing wild shots as the lead either gives way to the pressure or skids over the rifling.

No doubt it will work but there are much better uses for pure lead IMHO.

The bhn to psi is a huge lee thing. I thought he was the creator of that style and it comes in a pamphlet with his hardness tester.

 

[bersaguy]

Thank you to @MEHavey , the link to castboolits along with the other responses make me want to rethink using straight lead. I have about 10lbs of pure, think what I'll do is get down to about a ¼ of a pot (20lb Lee pot) of my wheel weight alloy, and then add my 10lbs of pure lead. I'll be softer than 50/50 and hopefully have something hard enough to grab the rifiling, but soft enough to deform hitting a soft target. Plus, I suppose that will fill out the molds better anyway.

 

[MEHavey]

Based on Lee's* pressure guide...Riddle me this then:
Pure lead = BN 5 === 6,700psi
Yet look at Post#27 operating more than 20,000psi

Or Lyman#2 at BN 15 === 19,000psi
Yet look at my Legend operating at more than 40,000psi


While I know where (and have actually calculated/measured) metal deformation numbers come from,
I've learned take the "working pressure" calculations with a grain of salt. Goes double when PC
(the non-Woke kind ) came on the scene.


* Don't get me wrong... I have great respect for Richard Lee. But empirically I find his numbers very conservative in practice.

 

[FROGO207]

To get your alloy up there go buy a 1 LB roll of lead free plumbing solder. I use the Silver Brite brand ( mostly tin and antimony) and add it to 10 LBS of soft lead. It ends up about the same as wheel weight lead from my testing.

I use the pure lead for muzzle loading bullets and round balls/buckshot.

 

[AJC1]

Based on Lee's* pressure guide...Riddle me this then:
Pure lead = BN 5 === 6,700psi
Yet look at Post#27 operating more than 20,000psi

Or Lyman#2 at BN 15 === 19,000psi
Yet look at my Legend operating at more than 40,000psi


While I know where (and have actually calculated/measured) metal deformation numbers come from,
I've learned take the "working pressure" calculations with a grain of salt. Goes double when PC
(the non-Woke kind ) came on the scene.


* Don't get me wrong... I have great respect for Richard Lee. But empirically I find his numbers very conservative in practice.

I may have posted that chart but it's only real value to me is conversion from dent size to bhn. Those numbers and pressures may work but I like my bhn 11-12 bullets PC in 357 mag just fine. I may have to figure out rifle but that's a little further down the road.

 

[bluejay75]

As stated above. Take those calculations with a grain of salt from Lee. But with ranch dog data if it was listed as Pmax....most times it was pmax. I will see if I can find one to share. His designs were built around good chamber fit, bore fit and tumble lubing with Alox. I’m sure the figures would have been different with PC.

That said. I go until my bullets get unstable. When I start throwing shots 5-6 inches out of the group my alloy is not hard enough. I either mix in some Babbitt and try again or reduce the powder charge. If a bullet skids, no matter the alloy or coating it’s going to lead. Another indicator that your alloy is failing. My best 2 cast 44 loads are 16-18 BHN 12:1 est. powder coated with a full grain more powder than the manual says to use for an equivalent jacketed bullet.

Pure is soft. Those will be great in 38 special. Go a little harder for 357.

I have a rifle at this very moment that is dry docked and “tango uniform” because I skidded a bullet in it. Been cleaning it off and on for what seems like months. It was powder coated and relatively hard but still failed.