Soft Shooting 9mm

[Doublehelix]

I am thinking about making some soft-shooting 9mm loads for Steel Challenge Matches where speed is king, and there are no power factor issues to worry about. Something that has less recoil and muzzle flip than my normal loads so I can compete more closely with the rimless guys! (I know they are in a different division, but still... it is all about the bragging rights!!!)

Obviously, #1, they have to work reliably and cycle the gun each time, and #2, they need to be *reasonably* accurate, although not "bullseye accurate".

I have been shooting 124 gr. handloads at my normal power loading using Titegroup (4.1 gr, RMR plated RN, 1.150"), and thought I would go back and work up some lighter loads and see what I can find (I actually still have the data from when I worked up this load to begin with).

But... I am thinking about going to a 147 gr. bullets for a softer load instead (let's not worry about cost vs. 124 gr. for the moment).

The only load data I can find on the Hodgdon site for 147 gr is for the Hornady XTP hollow points.

My questions:

1. Any other load data out there for 147 gr. bullets (other than XTP) with Titegroup?
2. Any other powders I should be considering? For pistol, I have Titegroup, PowerPistol (not a fan), HP-38/W231 and Bullseye. I am planning on picking up some AA#2 to try it on some .45 loads because I keep hearing how awesome it is, but don't have any currently.
3. What are some other good 147 gr. bullet choices to consider?

I do have some XTP bullets that I ordered a long time ago, but never loaded, so I will probably start there, and I see that RMR has some plated flat nose. To be honest, I am starting to move away from plated, even though I have shot them for a long time without issue. I am starting to move towards FMJ more often when possible, and not worry to much about the difference in cost. I am loving the "new" RMR FMJ 124 gr. bullets in both RN and HP. Good stuff!!!

Thanks in advance.

 

[chevrofreak]

I run 3.4gr of Titegroup with 147gr RMR plated. I get about 140pf out of that, so you could give a 3.2gr load a try. Should be nice and light.

 

[dgod]

See if you can find "MidwayUSA LoadMap 9MM", it has a ton of data, 20+ pages of 147gr Load data. I have several of these, they are caliber specific and is a compilation of data from multiple sources.

Good Luck
Dan

 

[Doublehelix]

I run 3.4gr of Titegroup with 147gr RMR plated. I get about 140pf out of that, so you could give a 3.2gr load a try. Should be nice and light.

Thanks. What COAL are you using?

 

[Load Master]

I have ran with Xtreme's 147gr in hollow, and round nose bullets with good results. Using Titegroup and these two styles of bullets 3.4gr of powder works well. Cycles well in my M&P full size. It gives me about 910fps.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My favorite light shooting 9mm round is a 124gr cast bullet over 4.0gr W231 but it seems you use a jacketed bullet. I also go with a 124gr FMJ bullet over 4.4gr W231. You can use less power with a plated bullet or even try a coated bullet too.

Both are accurate for me in several pistols including my newest pistol, a Sig P320 Compact.

 

[Doublehelix]

See if you can find "MidwayUSA LoadMap 9MM", it has a ton of data, 20+ pages of 147gr Load data. I have several of these, they are caliber specific and is a compilation of data from multiple sources.

Good Luck
Dan

Thanks Dan. I did a quick search, but will keep looking. So far, only sites that want me to register before downloading. I also saw one on eBay, which i might buy. I'd rather do that than register on some of those download sites that want to find a way to get you to pay or spam you, one or the other (or both!).

I will keep looking when I get a chance later this afternoon.

 

[Doublehelix]

I have ran with Xtreme's 147gr in hollow, and round nose bullets with good results. Using Titegroup and these two styles of bullets 3.4gr of powder works well. Cycles well in my M&P full size. It gives me about 910fps.

Awesome, thanks. COAL?

 

[Axis II]

i shoot 124gr extreme rn with hp-38 at what would cycle the gun thinking that was good enough but the further i shot the more the accuracy went to crap. i think i was at like 3.9-4gr and it was very light but now i went higher in charge and i can stand at 20ft and put 19rds in a 5x5 card but that's not fast action either. if you don't care about accuracy and just need to hit a man target plate 3.9 to 4gr hp-38 was good in my fullsize 9mm.

 

[Jim Watson]

What gun?
For steel, you might be better off with a light 124 gr load.
I once read that 925 fps was a good velocity, a good compromise on recoil and flight time in a game decided by the hundredth of a second.

 

[Dudedog]

If there is no power factor you might consider going to 100 gr bullets. (or 115s)
The 100gr Xtreme RNFPs shot well for me in 9mm.
I will try to dig out the data (since I'm looking for it, it's hiding) but I loaded up some "mouse fart" 100gr loads and was able to to get 100% function at around 1000fps.
Hardly any muzzle flip at all in a full size 9mm 1911.
A 100gr bullet a 1000fps is at 222 ft lbs, a 124 at 1060 is about 300 ft lbs. (guessing 4.1 of Titegroup is around 1050-1060 for you)

A lot of people go to 147s if they are trying to make power factor because of the way power factor is calculated a 147 load that makes PF will have less muzzle energy than a 124 load at the same PF. But since you are not trying to make PF I would look at lighter bullets.

 

[Load Master]

Awesome, thanks. COAL?

I use HP 1.120" and for Round Nose 1.160"

 

[Dudedog]

MIxed range brass, S+B SP (don't have exact temp but hot ~100)
I still can't find the mouse fart data , I was thinking it was 4gr of HP38, they were lighter than this one. (These were pretty soft as well)
5" Springfield 9mm 1911

String: 3
Date: 7/23/2016
Time: 10:24:13 AM
Grains: 100
Hi Vel: 1041
Low Vel: 1013
Ave Vel: 1028
Ext Spread: 28
Std Dev: 12
Xtreme 100 4.3 WSF 1.045 OAl
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1041 104.1 240.66
1040 104 240.2
1022 102.2 231.9
1013 101.3 227.9
1027 102.7 234.2

It would be under listed start charges but I would guess 3.7- 4gr of Bullseye, Titegroup, or HP38 would put you in the ballpark.
What I did when loading the "mouse farts" with HP38 was start so low (think I started at 3.5gr) that I got failures to function then increased the charge until I had reliable function.

Not what your after put the 100s would be fun with a stout charge of Power Pistol.

 

[DazedandConfuzed]

I have run 147gr. Delta Precision FMJ with 3.2 titegroup, @ 1.16"

reasonable accuracy and operation in SA 1911.

 

[Ocaladude]

147 Extreme with 5.1 Power Pistol, COL = 1.12. It cycles the G34 just fine.

 

[chevrofreak]

Thanks. What COAL are you using?

1.100"

 

[Doublehelix]

What great answers!!! Thank you THR! You guys are the best!

The gun I have been shooting as of late if my Sig P226 Legion SAO (to answer Jim Watson's question). This guy has a 4.4" barrel.

I love the "mouse fart" idea! Haha... that is a *great* visualization.

I think I am going to load up some soft 124 gr. first, and see how they shoot compared to my regular loads. I also will try a few of the 147 gr. XTPs and see how they feel compared to the 124's.

 

[rdtompki]

Light bullet, fast powder. 115gr Acme (or Bayout) with 3.6gr N320 works well. Also 124gr Acme with 4.3gr N340 is very soft. 147gr with ast powder is soft, but not as soft as the lighter bullets. My wife and I use these loads, respectively, in our 9mm 1911s.

 

[LiveLife]

I think I am going to load up some soft 124 gr. first, and see how they shoot compared to my regular loads.

Consider what Atlanta Arms sells for various match teams including US AMU. They are using 115 gr FMJ for their "softest and most accurate round for competition steel shooting"


9mm 115 gr FMJ Elite Steel Challenge - https://atlantaarms.com/products/9mm-115-gr-fmj-elite-steel-challenge.html

Bullet: 115 gr FMJ
Velocity: 1070 FPS ±
OAL: 1.145”

"Atlanta Arms 9mm STEEL CHALLENGE load was developed specifically for competition. This is by far softest and most accurate round for competition steel shooting and has been proven to be a championship winning round by our shooters and customers alike."


Compared to Match AMU loaded to minor power factor

9mm 115 gr FMJ Match AMU - https://atlantaarms.com/products/9mm-115gr-fmj-match-amu.html

Bullet: 115 gr FMJ
Velocity: 1150 FPS ±
OAL: 1.130”

"This ammunition is designed for extreme accuracy at 50 yards and is used by the Army Marksmanship Unit and the Marine Service Pistol team for service pistol matches. Accuracy test requirement: 5 ten-shot groups at 50 yards with an average group size not to exceed 1.5 inches. (Fired from a Match Grade barrel fixture) Minor Power Factor"


Versus PPC Match loaded to minor power factor

9mm 115 gr JHP Match - https://atlantaarms.com/products/9mm-115gr-jhp-match.html

Bullet: 115 gr JHP
Velocity: 1100 FPS ±
OAL: 1.075”

"This is the PPC match ammo used by the Homeland Security pistol teams, the Border Patrol Teams, and some of the best Police teams. This is also a great Bianchi Cup and Steel Challenge round averaging 1100 FPS±. Using a high quality match bullet, this is designed for extreme accuracy. Accuracy test requirement: 5 ten-shot groups at 50 yards, with an average group size not to exceed 1.25 inches. (Fired from a Match Grade barrel fixture) Minor Power Factor"

 

[mstreddy]

I've been loading various 147 gr with 3.5 gr of Win231 at 1.12". They've worked great out of various pistols.

 

[LiveLife]

Same here but with slightly longer OAL.

 

[earplug]

Various brands of polycoated bullets would serve you well. I use a self cast 148 grain with 2.9 of Titegroup in a 9MM 1911 for USPSA. A cast/coated 124 with a light load that functions your gun is all you need. Any fast powder will work. I had a load that was so light it was a distraction having the brass land on my hand.

 

[jmorris]

I haven't ever felt any minor load softer than 3.1 N310 with a berry's 147 @ 1.160" and they run in everything I have tried them in except the ported barrel of the MP5 SD.

With no power factor concerns you might look into getting lighter recoil springs and further reducing your loads.

I have seen cowboy action shooters with loads so reduced that a 125gn bullet from a 357 bounces off 3/8" plywood...yeah you can see them in flight.

 

[Zendude]

I've found that 4.3 grains of Universal with 124 grain plated bullets is a soft shooting load.

 

[Tcruse]

My favorite light shooting 9mm round is a 124gr cast bullet over 4.0gr W231 but it seems you use a jacketed bullet. I also go with a 124gr FMJ bullet over 4.4gr W231. You can use less power with a plated bullet or even try a coated bullet too.

Both are accurate for me in several pistols including my newest pistol, a Sig P320 Compact.

4.4 g HP-38 with Acme or Missouri Bullets (coated bullets) seem like the "sweet" point in terms of accuracy from Glock G17 and DW PM9