Sold all my 'small' CCW pistols

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@ armoredman: Good to know that at least one state has common sense laws for this. That looks like a very well-phrased statute for the issue.

smince said:
I don't find carrying a near-service sized gun of adequate power and rounds to be 'inconvenient'

Needing more than five rounds and only having a J-frame in the pocket would be inconvenient.
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Maybe you don't consider it inconvenient, but most people do. If some guy thinks it's convenient to carry an SBR in his pants, does that mean the rest of the world needs to start packing one? Most people will maximize their rate of carry by choosing a small gun, thereby satifying the first rule of gunfighting. If you don't feel inconvenienced by carrying a full-size pistol, you're ahead of the game but don't expect everyone to follow suit.

As for needing X rounds and only having Y, that can be extrapolated out forever. You never know how many shots or what caliber you might need to deal with a given situation. What happens if you get surrounded by multiple assailants? What happens if you're pinned in the corner of a room trading shots from behind cover? What if the enemy has a kevlar vest? Does this mean I need to carry an AK-47 everyday to feel safe? No, it means I can't expect to address every possible self-defense scenario with my EDC weapon. I can pick a gun that's capable of handling the most likely scenarios and hope I never get attacked by a small army with rifles and body armor shooting at me from 100 yards from behind cover.
 
Its all about the personal comfort zone and its really just my 2 cents worth. I dont consider myself a really good shot so I need more round to send downrange....
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That will sound good on the witness stand after you kill an innocent by-stander. You need some practice.
 
stanmo said:
That will sound good on the witness stand after you kill an innocent by-stander. You need some practice.
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Oops, I wasn't aware everybody else besides me is an excellent shot. FYI there is a difference between admitting not being a great shot and being too stupid to properly evaluate where you are shooting and if there is a potential for collateral damage. I use the same range all the local PD use for training and let me tell you, most LEO are very poor shots.
 
Didn't mean to lump you in with the "spray and Pray" mentality. I'll defer to your sound judgement.
 
Like someone else said, I don't think it's fair to make the shot placement argument in favor of small guns. If you can place shots well with a small, snappy gun you can place them even better (and more of them) with a larger gun.

The real question is whether you want to lug a big gun around with you everyday given the likelihood of needing to use it and whether you'll really need the extra capabilities of the larger gun in a probable SD scenario. If trouble is in my foreseeable future for whatever reason, I'd err on the side of carrying the largest gun I reasonably could (and probably keep a rifle in the trunk as well). For EDC in a low-crime area, I feel adequately prepared with a 7+1 9mm subcompact--in my case, the Kel Tec PF9. Some people may opt for an even smaller gun as fits their carry needs and perceived risk factors. I wouldn't advocate a PF9 to a soldier in Iraq, because to them the likelihood of needing the gun is much higher and thus trumps convenience of carry.
 
Here's my theory on carrying: Within the limits of what dress and concealability requirements dictate, I carry whatever I would carry IF I KNEW I WAS GOING TO AN ARMED CONFLICT--because, my friends, that is the possible scenario that drives most of us to reasonably carry and, for all we know, that's exactly what's waiting for us around the corner. I'd be mighty surprised if anybody, thinking that way, would select a mouse gun...
 
I carry a 380, wish I could carry one of my 1911s all the time. Concealing the 1911 is just to hard for me. I say carry what you are comfortable with for both concealment and stopping power. I had to compromise and go with the 380.
 
@ Reasoned1: If you were actually going to an armed conflict, I think you'd bring a service pistol, a rifle, extra mags for both, probably a combat knife, body armor if you have it, and an IFAK. Now would you actually EDC all that stuff? I doubt it, because you know full well you have about a 0.01% chance of needing it on any given day. This is why CCW is a compromise between the perceived risk of needing to defend oneself and the inconvenience of being fully prepared for that encounter.
 
Just uncovering the weapon cannot be construed as brandishing
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Unless bad guy calls cops first and says you showed them your gun in a threatening manner. which may be felony depending on where it happens.
Or another scenario, Bad guy has a high powered rifle and reason to believe you are "only" armed with a hand gun. Lots of angles to argue on that post. I would say showing off your piece is a bad play that may have worked out in this particular situation.
Also like someone else pointed out if he showed off a ruger LCP same out come may have happened. Its anyones guess.
 
Ok, brandishing is defined differently in states as the example in AZ showed. They seem to have the most common sense. In any case brandishing is a misdemeanor, not a felony. We are starting to split hairs. I consider this thread closed.
 
Like I said, "Within the limits of what dress and concealability requirements dictate...". I do, however, carry a knife. Unfortunately, I can't afford the vest, and the rifle and mags are definitely not concealable. Don't get me wrong, there are times when I carry an LCP, because my XD45 is too big to conceal and I'd rather have something. My point is that people who nonchalantly elect little guns over big guns don't take the risk of attack very seriously.
 
A CCW is not a "Snuggie" blanket, one size does not fit all.
Everyone is different, with different requirements, preferences, strengths, etc.
Without knowing the individual and all of their factors, I would not brand anyone's carry choice as nonchalant, or that they do not take the risk of attack very seriously.
If someone chooses to carry a full size pistol and it works for them, wonderful! If not, wonderful! What works is what works.

.
 
I prefer carry comfort since I don't do much handling and shooting when I'm out and about. A "J" frame works for me.
 
I carry a 5" 1911 almost every day. there are times, and place though where it's just too big. Thats the time for a J-frame for me. Carry what you like, but nothing less than .38spl+P for me.
 
Hastings said:
I find the trend toward lighter and lighter firearms, along with the trend toward guns like the Judge (which to me seems marketed toward individuals that are less likely to be trained or practice with firearms to any meaningful extent) to be questionable.

I simply think that many of the ultra-small, ultra-light guns on the market are ending up in the hands of people better served with a non-lethal weapon. I personally know of at least seven individuals who have purchased LCP's and LCR's, who are more likely to injure themselves or have the gun taken from them if they ever attempt to use it in self defense. I'm not being flippant on this one. They are neither mechanically inclined enought or serious enough about being able to adequately shoot the gun to be safe with one in my opinion. I think that carrying a handgun for self defense is a serious matter, and while everyone should be entitled to defend themselves there are many who are either unwilling or incapable of mastering a firearm for self-defense. Like the absurd comic skits with cell-phones that are to small to dial, I think that making these guns so small and light is actually making them easy to carry, but less easy to use, and less pleasant to shoot, which can lead to them being seldom practiced with. Combine that with someone who likes the low price and has never handled a firearm before and you have trouble. Here in Vermont you can walk into a gunstore and walk out ten minutes later with a handgun as long as you aren't a felon. No training required, no skills, no license. Plus, you can then pocket the gun and legally carry it on you with no permit or training. You can begin to see the problem.

As far as non-lethal weapons, I think that not every self-defense encounter needs to be deadly, and not everyone is prepared to take a human life, even in self defense. This is what lead to my pepper spray and stun-gun reference.

I hope I didn't offend anyone. It was not my intention. I maintain my opinion of these smaller/lighter weapons, but it's just that, my opinion, and worth no more or less than anyone elses.

frequently tongue in cheek,
Hastings
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The great thing about this country is that you can think what you want about other people who are carrying these smaller guns, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. The person who trains religiously probably will perform better in a high stress situation, but that doesn't mean that the person you have judged as not being worthy of carrying a gun will do poorly. It will all come down to the "fight or flight" mechanism kicking in. Some people are wired to handle stress better/differently than others. Training might help overcome the urge to flight, but it is no guarantee. You might think you know what these people will do in that situation, but you can't be sure. Plus these people have every right to carry that small gun as you do your full size pistol that you carry.

I own a bug gun (a TCP), but it is just that...a Back Up Gun (BUG). They are designed to be a back up to the larger gun that might be taken away from you since it's sitting out there in the open. The only time I rely on the TCP is when I just wouldn't be capable of carrying anything else. Guns in the hands of ordinary citizens is a right we shouldn't question...that is until they shoot us at the range because they don't know what they are doing.:uhoh:
 
I am hardly questioning anyone's right to carry what they please (and of course one had best be proficient in their choice). Insinuating so is a silly over-reaction. I only maintain that it is illogical, if one carries a gun in case their life or the lives of their loved ones are endangered, to carry a gun less capable than one that could be carried under the circumstances. This is especially true since the difference in carrying comfort between large and small guns is minimal at best.
 
stanmo said:
I prefer carry comfort since I don't do much handling and shooting when I'm out and about. A "J" frame works for me.
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That may be true until SHTF...But when the time comes, the reverse may be valid...
 
In that situation you'd need more than what you're carrying anyway. You can't plan your EDC system around some end of the world scenario if you want to get anything done in real life.
 
the count,

After actually carrying several different so-called sub compact guns incl. SW Bodyguard 38, KelTec PF9 and Ruger LCP I came to the conclusion that the all suck firepower wise. Please, don't get back with comments like 'one well placed round between the eyes....' bla bla bla. I have not been in an actual gunfight (thank god) but have several advanced combat pistol courses under the belt and guys, even with these simulations its TOTALLY different from standing at the range with a stationary target 7 yards away. I now carry either a XDM9 with a whopping 19 round mag or a GLOCK 30SF with 13 rounds of 45 ACP. Slightly more uncomfortable? Maybe. Peace of mind? Tons better.
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Saw your post and I had to comment as I did the same thing. I've had a bit of a revelation in terms of what I carry. After a bit of a hair-raising incident involving a tense scene with 3 people in a dark place one night, I came to the conclusion that my Kel-Tec P3AT with one magazine was too small, there wasn't enough ammo, and that after those 6 rounds, I'd be hosed. So, I went through my safe and sold off every one of my micro-guns lest I give into the temptation of what I call "comfort carry".

I've literally carried all kinds of microguns from the aforementioned P3AT, the Ruger LCP, and a Colt Pony Pocketlite. The smallest gun I now carry is a 640 J-frame S&W in .357 Magnum and that's mainly for a Back Up Gun. The main gun I carry now is a Glock 19. The Glock 19 to me represents an almost perfect balance of capacity, shootability and concealability. I find it's easily concealed with the right holster and a good belt. I carry it all day with no issues, I shoot it at the range without grimacing, and with the Beltman belt and a Comptac IWB holster, it's carried out of sight and out of mind. Yeah, there are times when a smaller gun is more convenient but those times are few and far between. I simply dress around the gun a bit more and I go about my business.
I don't regret selling off those micro-guns at all. In fact, I feel it was a wise decision.
 
Originally Posted by Hastings
I find the trend toward lighter and lighter firearms, along with the trend toward guns like the Judge (which to me seems marketed toward individuals that are less likely to be trained or practice with firearms to any meaningful extent) to be questionable.

I simply think that many of the ultra-small, ultra-light guns on the market are ending up in the hands of people better served with a non-lethal weapon. I personally know of at least seven individuals who have purchased LCP's and LCR's, who are more likely to injure themselves or have the gun taken from them if they ever attempt to use it in self defense. I'm not being flippant on this one. They are neither mechanically inclined enought or serious enough about being able to adequately shoot the gun to be safe with one in my opinion. I think that carrying a handgun for self defense is a serious matter, and while everyone should be entitled to defend themselves there are many who are either unwilling or incapable of mastering a firearm for self-defense. Like the absurd comic skits with cell-phones that are to small to dial, I think that making these guns so small and light is actually making them easy to carry, but less easy to use, and less pleasant to shoot, which can lead to them being seldom practiced with. Combine that with someone who likes the low price and has never handled a firearm before and you have trouble. Here in Vermont you can walk into a gunstore and walk out ten minutes later with a handgun as long as you aren't a felon. No training required, no skills, no license. Plus, you can then pocket the gun and legally carry it on you with no permit or training. You can begin to see the problem.

As far as non-lethal weapons, I think that not every self-defense encounter needs to be deadly, and not everyone is prepared to take a human life, even in self defense. This is what lead to my pepper spray and stun-gun reference.

I hope I didn't offend anyone. It was not my intention. I maintain my opinion of these smaller/lighter weapons, but it's just that, my opinion, and worth no more or less than anyone elses.

frequently tongue in cheek,
Hastings
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he should move to ny or like sate and see how the permit process keeps everyone so much more safe. or his comments are sarcasm I just didnt pick up what he was putting down.
 
Carry what gives "peace of mind."
I have peace of mind whether I carry my 1911 Compact, G 26, Kahr P9, Smith 642, or KTP3AT. I carry the P3AT most of the time because it is convenient on my dresser in a Fobus Paddle. As much peace as my 1911.

Regards,
Jerry
 
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