Some 1911 Clarity please

[TuckerNielson]

Hello one and all -

As I am a new gun enthusiast THR is my first stop for all of my questions. My ignorance shines like a beacon in this forum and I have embarrassed myself on more than one occasion, so please be kind.

My collection of firearms is growing steadily and the time has come for me to purchase my first 1911. I am not a 1911 fanatic. But I do like them and I appreciate the time tested, combat proven design. I hope to only buy one maybe two 1911's in my life - but I plan on passing those guns down to my grandchildren. In other words I don't mind spending some money for a quality product. The question is - which quality product?

I immediately gravitated toward Springfield as I own an XDm 9mm (can't wait for the .45) and an M1A. Wouldn't it be cool to round out a collection of SA firearms with a Loaded Combat or perhaps TRP 1911? Then I read this lengthy review and I was about to head out the door to make a purchase.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=33203

Inevitably something came up and I didn't make it to my local gun store that day. I then discovered a different review with the opposite conclusion. This review compared the SA TRP with the Sig 1911. I learned all about the supposed evils of MIM parts and how Sig quality will someday save the universe.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=77924


So here is what is important to me.
1. I want a 1911 that is dead reliable. It must go bang every time I pull the trigger. I don't view guns as art (although they are very pretty), they are tools meant to be used.

2. This gun will be used for defensive purposes. I will take it out to shoot frequently, but I'm not an indoor range guy. I like to be outside exposed to the elements, so the gun will be exposed to rather harsh environments. I probably will not use this gun for concealed carry frequently.

3. As dumb as it sounds aesthetics are kind of important to me (forget what I said about guns as art). All my guns feature black and stainless steel. I would like to keep that theme going. I understand that this is completely ridiculous and mock-worthy.

4. If I am going to spend ~1500 bucks on a 1911 I want the best possible product available. I can't afford an Ed Brown or a Kimber Custom whatnot etc.

So what I need is some clarity. I understand that everybody has his/her opinion and in this community opinions are extremely, well... opinionated. Is the Springfield TRP a good product considering it's cost? Is the Sig 1911 (specifically platinum model) a good product? What other manufacturers should I be looking at (again I only have 1300-1500 bucks, so a les baer, wilson combat, Kimber may be out of my price range).

Thanks in advance,

Tucker

 

[Rockwell1]

You could get a gun that fits your stated needs for less than half that in a RIA ( in stainless I might add)

 

[Quoheleth]

Look at the Springfield Loaded. I love mine. It's stainless (no duo-tone) and runs like a top, once I figured out what the previous owner did with the trigger over-travel screw. I paid $700, IIRC, and love the weapon. I have no problems recommending the brand, sight unseen of the particular weapon.

If you want to go duo-tone, have Springfield refinish the slide to your color. Will it be Ed Brown quality? No...but it will probably be pretty close, shoot almost as well, and cost you less. Look at it this way: if you want to get good then gun savings = ammo + training money.

Something to remember when reading what seems to be an anomoly range report is for every one negative internet story there's probably 100 positives that are never recorded. Now, if negative reports continue to arise (e.g., Sig 250 issues) then one begins to raise eyebrows and be a bit scepitacal.

You're on the right track...research the heck out of the products available. You'll get a dozen opinions, but in the end it will be your call. Try to handle as many 1911s as you can...Dan Wesson, Smith, Colt, Kimber (used market, maybe), Springfield, et. al., narrow your choices down, research some more, and make a decision.

Have fun!
Q

 

[kamagong]

Is the Springfield TRP a good product considering it's cost?

The TRP is a fine gun, but it is a bit overpriced for what you get.

Since you like Springfield, take a look at the Custom Carry. It's a Springfield Custom Shop gun, so it's made one at a time with the same care and exacting standards as the more famous Springfield Professional (AKA the FBI gun). I got mine for $1625 before taxes and fees, so it's a little more than your budget, but it's definitely worth it. The Custom Carry is better than anything Kimber makes, and is equal to anything from Les Baer, Ed Brown, or Wilson.

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

If I am going to spend ~1500 bucks on a 1911 I want the best possible product available. I can't afford an Ed Brown or a Kimber Custom whatnot etc.

You can afford a Les Baer. You can usually snag used ones for a little under that, espeically TRS's. Actually, if I remember correctly from their pamphlet they were handing out at SHOT, the dealer price for some of their no-frills guns are about 1400 - you might be able to get a new one if your dealer likes you.

 

[rcmodel]

Get the real thing, or as close to it as is still being made. Priced the same or less, and resale value will be far greater on down the road.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/products-c5-COLT_PISTOLS.aspx

rc

 

[cactusgeorge]

1911

Let's back up a moment. He said "dead reliable and must go bang every time"..!! Neither of which 1911's are known for, unless he "sensitizes" the grip safety and learns where his firing side trigger finger spends most of it's remaining days..!!! Maybe a Glock or a Sig would better suit his needs..

 

[Quack]

for the $1500 you are thinking of spending on TRP, you can get a Baer for about $100 more. the TRP is nice, but what the price is now, i think its overpriced. I bought mine NIB for $950 otd in 2002. If you shop around, you can find a nice used Brown, Baer or Wilson. I bougt my Wilson Classic Longslide for $1395 (+tax) a few months ago.
I plan on passing my gun's down to my son.

Here's te Wilson that i bought:


Here's my TRP:


and just for fun, here's a Ed Brown Kobra Carry i bought last week:

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

1. I want a 1911 that is dead reliable.

Get the real thing, or as close to it as is still being made.

rcmodel makes a very good point. The 1911 issued to soldiers wasn't a tight-clearance, hand-fit custom job. They rattled when you shook them, and so do most modern Colts. That's the sound of reliability.

 

[308win]

I have a 1991A1 Colt that has yet to misfunction. Less than $500 NIB but that was a half dozen or so years ago.

 

[xmanpike]

LOL. Sounds like the Irishman is Kimber bandwagonner

 

[The Wiry Irishman]

LOL. Sounds like the Irishman is Kimber bandwagonner

The low-end Kimbers are a little loose, but not enough to rattle.

 

[Doogledog]

I have a Springfield GI Champion that I've tinkered with that I really enjoy that was less than $500 NIB. I also own a Kimber Custom that I paid too much for but I've had no problems with and my wife likes it better than my Springer. I really don't know why so many people dislike Kimbers on this forum but I've got nothing but good things to say about mine. I also like the straight mainspring housing design much better than those with the palm swell. You may want to try one of each before you buy.

 

[Coltman 77]

Hi Tucker and welcome to THR.

It will cost you a bit more than you've planned but given your requirements -- Wilson Combat is probably where you should go.

Forget Springfield, Kimber, and Colt if you want dead nuts reliability.

Wilson or Les Baer, imho.

 

[kamagong]

Springfield Custom is on par with Les Baer or Wilson.

 

[rcmodel]

Coltman77, you need to change your name to Wilsonman77, or LesBaerman77.

rc

 

[Zerodefect]

NO MIM:

Dan Wesson Valor......it will be mine, oh yes, it will be mine.

 

[verdun59]

Before you part with all that money, why not try the CZ97B. Just as reliable and you don't have to fiddle with and tune it ....

 

[Quack]

because he's looking for a 1911.


if you are passing guns down to the grandchildren, how about AR's, AK's and hi-cap pistols? because who knows what the availabity in the next 20years.

 

[rcmodel]

Availability 20 years from now, or legality at all 20 years from now?

Nothing like an heirloom you are afraid to take out from under the bed.

rc

 

[DRYHUMOR]

I'd say try to handle and shoot as many different ones as you are able. That will help you along toward a choice.

 

[JTQ]

Colt Series 70 Reproduction

If I was looking for an example of what a 1911 is, the Colt Series 70 Repro would be my choice. There are more expensive pistols, less expensive pistols, pistols with more features, pistols with fewer features, but what it all comes down to that Colt is the benchmark, the standard, the point for comparison for all the others. Start with the benchmark and you will probably be happy. I'm not necessarily saying Colt makes the best pistols, but in their price range, I feel they are an excellent values, and have very few MIM parts. Colt was the original 1911 and if you don't get one you will always wish you had one in your collection.

If you buy at the low end and something goes wrong, you will ask "is that how a 1911 is supposed to work, or is it because it is a $xxx brand X pistol?"

 

[CWL]

I currently own at least one of every pistol discussed so far, including Glocks and a SIG, and most M1911s will satisfy your demands without needing to get near the $1500 mark.

Personally, ~$1000 will get you an SA Loaded or a Dan Wesson. - I lean heavily towards the Dan Wesson.

Nothing wrong with the low-end stuff, but just like cars, sometimes you want to do more than just "get there". Sometimes you want leather seats and the 6-CD changer...

 

[Old Fuff]

1. I want a 1911 that is dead reliable. It must go bang every time I pull the trigger. I don't view guns as art (although they are very pretty), they are tools meant to be used.

That poses a problem, because none of the current 1911 style pistols being made today are built to the U.S. Army’s blueprint dimensions and material/heat treating specifications. In short, what you get is not the legendary weapon. They are much tighter then the “real” 1911A1, and the calculated clearances that helped to insure its dependability are gone. In many cases what you have left is a gadget-loaded big boy toy.

This is why on so many occasions you see recommendations that tout more modern pistols over the 1911 Browning design. The truth of it is that pre-1965 Colt’s can stand up with them all. They don’t have to prove themselves because they did it for decades. But throwing money at a current production gun won’t necessarily buy you reliability when the emphasis is on fancy cosmetics and tactical sounding names rather then core quality.

By all means buy the pistol of your choice, but don’t trust it until it’s proven itself, and in the case of a current 1911 clone that will take a lot of ammunition.

 

[Geno]

I suggest a Colt Series 70 Reissue (reproduction) in stainless. I have one (also a blue).

I did a head-to-head reliability test between a Glock 17 and the Series 70 Colt. I wanted to see how many rounds I could fire before one of them would fail. All I did was add oil as needed, but never cleaned. I did the test over the course of several weeks. At 3,000 rounds, I finally quit and cleaned them both...equally reliable; equally accurate.