Some CDNN FN Hi-Power questions

[meh92]

I have been trying to fight off my Hi-Power obsession for about a year but I fear the sickness is winning. I borrowed a Browning Mk-III from a friend and will head to the range tonight for a few hundred rounds... just to make sure this is something I really want. I'm looking for a shooter, not a collector's piece. The gun will see plenty of range time and maybe a little CCW duty.

I'm looking very closely at the matte-finished FN Hi-Powers advertised in CDNN's recent catalog and I had some questions. The guns are the Mk-III version which as far as I know (or don't know) means:

1. Military/utilitarian bake-on finish
2. Throated barrel with hump removed
3. Cast frame/slide
4. Trigger pull (8 lb+)
5. Modified ejection port

Am I on track here?

1. The Browning HP I borrowed has a very nice fit and finish. Since the FN's are made in the same factory should I expect the FN's fit/quality to be on par with the Browning? If any, what kind of differences should I expect?

2. Is the FN bake-on finish durable? Is it corrosion-resistant and self-lubricating like Gun Kote and similar spray/bake finishes?

3. The extra-fancy cocobolo stocks they advertise look a little like Speigel stocks. Has anyone ordered them ($30) and if so, what was your impression? I don't like the factory Mk-III stocks and planned on immediately replacing them anyway.

4. Are the 17 round Argentine miltary (blued) reliable or should I stick to the 13 rounders?

5. With the mag safety removed (and using all factory parts) what kind of trigger pull could I expect a good gunsmith (like Novak) to get the pull weight down to?

6. MIM parts seem to be a big issue in the 1911 crowd these days. Without stirring up any potential hornet's nests, does FN use MIM and if so, has durability been an issue with the Mk-III version I'm considering?

7. Will these guns tolerate a steady diet of +P ammo? I would probably use military ball most of the time and NATO hardball is a little warm.

I appreciate all the information and insight you can provide. I called CDNN today and they have plenty left so I wanted to check here before pulling the trigger, so to speak.

Thanks everyone

 

[wally]

4. Are the 17 round Argentine miltary (blued) reliable or should I stick to the 13 rounders?

Can't speak to the 17 round ones, but I've half a dozen of the the KRD 15-rounders and all work perfectly in my CDNN FN HiPower as wll as my FM & FEG "clones".

Six of these and the 10-rounder that comes with the gun lets me have 100 rounds pre-loaded when I get to the range.

I'd call the FN matte finish better than "baked on utilitarian"

Don't agonize, just get it you'll like it.

--wally.

 

[CougarRed]

Note: The CDNN MkIIIs have the Cylinder & Slide SFS device installed. As I understand it, the hammer and safety become mated, such that when the hammer is down, the safety is on, and when you flick the safety off, the hammer springs back. Never fired one, so I don't know if it's an improvement. If you don't like it, a gunsmith can remove it for you, and you are back to original condition. One good thing about the CDNN set up is the hammer is bobbed, eliminating the potential for hammer bite.

I believe the MkIII slide is forged with a cast frame. It is throated to feed hollowpoints. FN is the same as Browning. What used to be called BHPs were made by FN in Belgium. FN is the real deal.

For more info, go to www.hipowersandhandguns.com run by Steve Camp.

 

[DMF]

The CDNN MkIIIs have the Cylinder & Slide SFS device installed.

This is not true. I just picked up my Hi-Power from CDNN today, and it does NOT have the SFS.

In the current catalog (2005-2) on page 8 at the top of the page they have 9mm Hi-Powers for $400, and .40S&W Hi-Powers for $430. These are labeled in the catalog as "Belgian FN Hi-Powers," and are in fact the standard Mk III Hi-Power WITHOUT the SFS. Immediately below those they are selling the SFS Hi-Powers for $490 (9mm) and $430 (.40 S&W).

So CDNN does have both the standard MkIII and the MkIII with the SFS. You will pay more for the SFS in 9mm.

They also have the FN-HP/DA and FN-HP/DAO, which look somewhat similar to the Hi-Power, but are actually DA/SA and DAO pistols.

 

[Marshall]

They have the regular single action Hi-Powers.

The finish is great, very tough and very pretty. Fit is excellent.

The stocks and the mags? I don't know. For the price, neither could be a real bad deal.

Mag safety, I've left mine in. Feel it before you decide to remove it.

+P ammo? They won't hurt it but they'll will make it's life shorter.

I highly recommend them.

Good luck, you'll like it if you buy it.

 

[meh92]

I see that the SFS equipped guns are sold separately. I'm interested in the origianl ones.

Are there any differences between the FN Mk-III and and Browning Mk-III besides the finish, rollmarks, and price?

Thanks for all the info.

Pics would be great.

 

[Marshall]

Nope.

The FN looks just like this BHP MK-III. Now, with that said, someone bought a FN with squared trigger guard. I don't why it had one, maybe it was DA/SA or something but mines exactly the same.

 

[DMF]

Other than the rollmarks the only difference I could find between the Browning marked guns and the FN marked guns is the grips. The Brownings have a grip with a large "thumbrest groove" but the FN guns have flat checkered panels.

Browning MkIII (from the Browning website):

FN MkIII (from a google image search):

The FN gun shown has a different finish than the current ones. The one shown is a traditional blued finish, but the one I got yesterday has the same black finish shown on the Browning. Also, th FN Herstal rollmark is now on the left side of the frame, above the slide stop.

I'll take pictures of mine this weekend. I much prefer the FN grips over the grooved Browning grips, but still decided to replace them with the Pachmayer wrap around grips.

 

[meh92]

Does the FN have a dovetailed front sight like the Browning?

Thanks

 

[Marshall]

Mine came with same grips as the Browning and a dovetail front sight. Identical.

Edit: I would call CDNN and verify what configuration they are selling today, obviously there have been variations.

 

[DMF]

Yes, dovetail front sight.

I also forgot to add the FN guns have the SN stamped over the right side grip, but I think the Browning guns still have the SN stamped on the front strap. This could be an issue if you want to stipple or serrate the front strap. Regardless, both guns are made at the same factory with very minor differences. However, the price is usually much lower for the FNs, which is why I chose the FN over trying to get a Browning.

 

[meh92]

Thanks again.

 

[TheDutchman]

The CDNN FN HI Power MKIII are exactly same as A Browning HI Power MKIII, the only difference is the Rollmarks. After all Fn Herstal owns Browning and have been making the HI power since it inception.

 

[brickboy240]

I have the CDNN wood stocks on my Hi-Power and they're very nice looking and a steal at that price. Are they Speigels? I don't know - htey have no markings at all, but they look great on my recently parked Belgian Beauty.

-Brickboy240

 

[Trebor]

I ordered the Cocobolo grips when I bought my CDNN MK III. I put them on the gun, played with the gun with the grips on for about five minutes, then took the grips off and sent them back.

The grips are gorgeous, but swell for the thumb rest makes it hard to hit the magazine release. The grips are just too thick right at the wrong spot. I decided that functionality was more important then looks.

I found a cheap set of wood Houge grips on clearance at a local shop and put those on instead. They don't look as good as the Cocobolo grips, but they work better. The Houges were also thinner than the factory plastic grips and really improved the feel of the gun.

My advice? Get the gun, but skip the grips.

 

[DMF]

As promised a pic of my new Hi-Power:

Click thumbnail for full size pic:


I changed out the factory grips for a Pachmayer wraparounds.

 

[meh92]

Thanks everybody for the info and advice. The check is in the mail and hopefully I'l have the gun by early next week.

I still haven't decided what to do with grips but I'm leaning towards the Navidrex set in Brownells.

 

[spacemanspiff]

though i havent shot it, i have handled the HP's with the sfs, and i gotta say, i don't like it. while its similar in theory to cocked & locked, the extra steps necessary go against my instincts.

for example, when i chamber my kimber, i immediately flip the thumb safety. with the sfs system you have to either use your offhand to push the hammer down, or reposition your strong hand completely to reach it.
in addition, the triggers on the sfs are atrocious. and with the sfs installed i am told there is nothing a gunsmith can do to sweeten it up.
add to that the magazine safety, and its just not my cup of tea. trying to demonstrate it to customers at the shop requires way too much effort. first you drop the mag, rack the slide, try to dry fire, remember you have to have the mag inserted to do that, reinsert the mag, fumble with the safety lever until remembering the hammer has to be pushed down first....

bottom line, i dont like it.

 

[Coltdriver]

Well now that you are committed these answers are a bit late, but, for what its worth:

1. The Browning HP I borrowed has a very nice fit and finish. Since the FN's are made in the same factory should I expect the FN's fit/quality to be on par with the Browning? If any, what kind of differences should I expect?

Same manufacturer as the Browning. I picked up on of the compacts and the fit and function are excellent.

2. Is the FN bake-on finish durable? Is it corrosion-resistant and self-lubricating like Gun Kote and similar spray/bake finishes?

The finish is excellent. It is almost like an enamel epoxy. Mine has been very durable. I don't believe it is self lubricating. I oil mine.

3. The extra-fancy cocobolo stocks they advertise look a little like Speigel stocks. Has anyone ordered them ($30) and if so, what was your impression? I don't like the factory Mk-III stocks and planned on immediately replacing them anyway.

Don't know

4. Are the 17 round Argentine miltary (blued) reliable or should I stick to the 13 rounders?

Don't know about the Argentine mags, I did pick up a couple of the S. African 17 rounders and they have been excellent.

5. With the mag safety removed (and using all factory parts) what kind of trigger pull could I expect a good gunsmith (like Novak) to get the pull weight down to?

You may be able to lighten the trigger, however it you take a good look at the mechanism it will not lend itself to a 1911 style let off. I have a MKIII with the firing pin block and the mag safety in place and was able to get it very smooth with just a couple of treatments of moly lube. A serious trigger job in a HP uses a different geometry than a stock HP and requires a new hole in the slide and a different transfer bar. But if you just smooth it out the results are quite nice.

6. MIM parts seem to be a big issue in the 1911 crowd these days. Without stirring up any potential hornet's nests, does FN use MIM and if so, has durability been an issue with the Mk-III version I'm considering?

Don't know

7. Will these guns tolerate a steady diet of +P ammo? I would probably use military ball most of the time and NATO hardball is a little warm.

Get a shok buff if you are going to shoot a lot of +p. It will preserve the frame and your hand. You will wear out the slide spring faster and you may want to go to a 18.5 pound spring if you are going to shoot +P

 

[natedog]

I don't know how much MIM is used in the Hi-Power, but it has been my observation that a box-stock MKIII is generally more reliable than your similarly priced stock 1911 from most manufacturers.

 

[incursion]

I just got my CDNN Hi-Power. The trigger is horrendous. The poundage is 10 lbs. The gun also shoots low and right by 1.5" and 1.25" respectively.

 

[meh92]

From everything I've read on this and other boards, I'm prepared for a horrible trigger. If that is th only thing to overcome then I'll be more than happy. Most of my handguns have had trigger-jobs of one sort or another so having to do a little tweaking to the HP would be alright.

 

[MrAcheson]

I've owned one for over a year now.

1) Fit and finish is very good. These are made in the same factory as the Brownings. No complaints here.

2) The matte finish is very nice and is quite durable. I'm sure you could scratch it if you tried, but it has survived general use well. I don't believe it is self-lubricating and any metal to metal contact will strip off the finish in short order. I oil mine. Oh and, if you didn't know, the barrel is not stainless or chromed, it is carbon steel left in the white. Make sure you oil that sucker, I have some surface blemishes because I assumed stainless.

3) Dunno. My matte model had stock grips that were cheap plastic. I replaced them with Navidrex, but those cracked. I replaced those with Spegel's and so far so good. I also replaced the grip screws with hogue allen screws, the stock screws seem to bugger easily.

4) The KRD mags are nice and will work fine. I went to the 15 round Mec-gars after the ban ended because I wanted something that fit flush.

5) The trigger can be made quite nice, but it isn't and won't ever be a 1911. The lockwork is completely different so the reset is longer among other things. The stock trigger is pretty horrible so budget for a smith.

6) The hipower probably has some MIM parts in it. Before the death of fnhipower.com they had a comparison of some parts before and after. FN seems to beef up the parts they switch over, while maintaining backwards compatibility. So an MIM slide stop will do the same job as the previous type, but if you put the two next to each other the MIM will be beefier in the important areas.

The Hipower also has a cast frame. Unlike the 1911 folks who often insist of forged, the hipower community generally thinks that the cast hipower frame is as good or better than the forged one. This is because the cast frame is was introduced with the .40S&W hipower and is shared between the .40 and 9mm. If it can take .40 then it should eat 9mm up.

I haven't heard horror stories about MIM in the hipower like with 1911s. This is probably has more to do with these stories being overblown in the 1911 community rather than underblown in the hipower community. It may also be that FN still sells these guns to militaries who have reliability written into the procurement contracts. Compare this to, say, Kimber who sells to mostly to civilians who have to take what they get.

7) The hipower was the standard sidearm of many NATO nations for decades so they will digest NATO ball just fine. Obviously if you run the gun harder, it won't live as long. You don't get something for nothing.

 

[TheDutchman]

MrAcheson I would have to disagree with you on MIM parts in Hi powers. That was probably thought up by Wild Romanian on the FNhipower boards. I should track Hunter down he is running around Austin somewhere, see if he can give Mr. Camp the archives or something.

 

[MrAcheson]

There are definitely sprue marks on the current generation slide stops. This indicates MIM to me. Trust me if it was posted by Wild Romanian I wouldn't be reporting it as fact, although he was generally bashing the cast frames not smaller parts if I recall correctly.