Some really fascinating history

[brigadier]

Hello guys. Been really busy but I thought I'd drop by and share a little something cool with you. It's a rather entertaining video about an ancient conflict which served to really expand firearm technology. This was the Ottoman war, a forgotten world war more or less. I am actually working on a historical novel that covers everything in the video though it's actually focused on the Hungarians and Wallach's (Janos Hunyadi is the main character) so I can give you a little background on some of the odd contents in the video. First, the weird contraptions they were moving their ships on were used to get their fleet over some hills since the bay to Constantinople was blocked off by a chain net. The second is that big round chunk of steel they are shown hauling. That was Urban's cannon. It fired basically a wrecking ball but it turned out that it literally couldn't hit the broad side of a city. Finally, that guy shown meditating is Mehmed II. You may not know him by name but there is little doubt you know of stories involving him. The biggest and most obvious is that he is the Sultan who concurred Constantinople and was known as Mehmed the Conqueror. If you are at all familiar with Vlad the Impaler, then you have probably heard of him in that arena too. He's the man who was scared away by the infamous Forrest of the Impaled during the Turkish invasion of Wallachia.
Mehmed II was probably the biggest pursuer of firearm technology during the 1400s, having focused tightly on both tactics and improving existing technology. It's kinda odd that the CHRISTIAN province of Wallachia (present day Romania) was one of the vital places he looked to most for great minds to improve firearm technology which is where he found Urban who created the cannon in that video. It's also sort of interesting that Vlad the Impaler, who was raised in both Wallachia and the Ottoman Empire turned out to be one of the finest tacticians in the use of firearms of his time and implied battle tactics that would have given the colonials a swift victory over the British had they broadly used them.
As the video suggests, the size of the armies and engagements that took place in this war were much greater then often imagined. In fact, the Battle of Nandorfehervar, which took place 3 years after Constantinople, MAY have been as large Normandy in terms of troops engaging in combat and the importance of the battle was about the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxLRWAPKogg

 

[JohnL2]

I've always had an interest in the historical "Dracula" as opposed to the Bram Stoker incarnation.
My favorite dracula movie was one I saw not too long ago. It actually had Roger Daltrey from the band The Who in it. Also starred Peter Weller as a priest I think. But I just liked how it depicted him as a hard man who grew up in hard times. One of my favorite scenes was when some emissaries came to his throne room and wouldn't remove their hats because it was their custom. Okay. His guard led two out of three of them out of the room and the third had his talk with Vlad. Later the two are dragged back into the room with their hats nailed to their heads.
I liked the fact how it stayed away from all the hocus pocus stuff.

Historically, it was incredibly brutal. I've read accounts where captured enemy were crucified and floated downriver to terrify the enemy. Not to be outdone, the other side fired severed heads of captured enemy from their cannons.

 

[SSN Vet]

toll the noon bell!

 

[CWL]

Sorry Brigadier, but as a serious historical student of the Ottoman era and the Fall of Byzantium, that Youtube video is a load of crappola. Don't get your history from video game graphics. Nobody marched around with spears anymore, and the Turks fielded more modern troops (regulars, uniforms, firearms) than the Europeans.

In 1453, the Turks had already completely surrounded what was once the Eastern Roman Empire, leaving only Constantinople as the sole territory of Byzantium. It was a city in decay and declining population. Including mercenaries and volunteers, Constantinople had only ~7-10K defenders to man the walls in 1453. Actually, most of the defense was handled by an Italian volunteer who held everything together until he was wounded in battle.

What protected Constantinople for the past 1000 years was its walls. -Unfortunately, the Turks were the largest purveyors of artillery and firearms at that time. They employed all manner of artillery including a massive cannon designed by a renegade Hungarian named Urban. This 24' bronze cannon fired 1000+lbs balls, it was so big that it had to be cast in 2 pcs and was screwed-together at the battle. This and other smaller cannon rapidly knocked-down sections of wall which allowed the Turks to successfully assault the city.

The Fall of Constantinople is considered by many historians to be the end of the Medieval (not Ancient) era and beginning of the Renaissance. While mostly unknown to Americans, this history is very well known to Europeans and Moslems. This conflict has direct links to the hatred & violence existing today in the Balkans between Serbs, Croats and Bosnians.

Tales of Dracula was a small sidenote in the real history of that era.

Here is a good synopsis of the real battle:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/5990/byzantine/index.html

 

[brigadier]

Nobody marched around with spears anymore, and the Turks fielded more modern troops (regulars, uniforms, firearms) than the Europeans.

Yes, I am aware of all that. In fact, I think I said in my original post that they were quite advanced in that respect. Here's a little piece from one of my books dealing with the same army. Perhaps it'll be more up your ally.

By this time, the fighting had become unorganized enough that Janos and Giovanni, along with their officers, were only able to maintain control of smaller fighting groups. Janos insisted that Friar Giovanni stay with him for safety. However, Giovanni was insistent about being in close contact with his men. So, Janos asked him to oversee the defense of the walls at the waterways. Janos would fall back to the upper levels of Nandorfehervar to oversee the fighting and to keep that tactical stronghold from falling into Turkish hands.

As he retreated to the upper fortress, the first wave of Turkish cavalry broke through, cutting straight through Hunyadi’s and Giovanni’s troops. They advanced directly toward the upper fortress before gunfire and grenades halted their advance.

On the far side of the river, observing the damage on Nandorfehervar and the absence of artillery, Mehmed II said, "Radu?"

"Yes, Sultan?"

"Cease further advancements of your troops." Then, turning to the nearby Aga the Sultan said, "Send in the Janissaries."

Back at Nandorfehervar, Friar Giovanni, who seemed to be taking advantage of his role as a Franciscan monk, or perhaps being seen as a chaplain with no further duties, found himself summoned to the walls to observe the incoming assault. The sight before his eyes stunned him. Screaming at the top of his lungs, he yelled, "It’s the Janissaries! They are sending in the entire legion!"

Upper fortress of Belgrade, 1:00AM. July 22, 1456

Hearing this, one officer charged to Janos' position, giving him the devastating news. Janos was perhaps the only person to take this as good news and immediately moved for the walls.

By this time, the Janissaries had broken in and were cutting through Giovanni’s and Hunyadi’s troops like grass. Seeing that the defenders were attempting to engage them at distance, they attempted to merge with Janos' troops, forcing them to cease-fire or risk friendly fire.

As Janos moved towards the walls, he spread word for his troops to allow the Janissaries to push them outward making more room for the pouring in Janissary reinforcements. The invaders would be so engrossed in the perceived rout, they would be unable to see the tactical move being made against them.