Something for THR to think about

[Hoppy590]

im honestly supprised i dont have black crown vics following me everywhere.

 

[.cheese.]

Honestly, if you are doing something illegal and you are foolish enough to brag about it online, you really deserve to get caught. This isn't some sort of private club. Same bragging to buddies at the bar. Some members are police officers for that matter.

I agree. What bothers me though is that the FCC and CPSC used information from posts to make things that were legal - illegal.

Well, actually that's not 100% true. From what I could gather, they used the information to find what loopholes exist that allow people to ever so slightly bend the rules. For example, on PyroUniverse, it largely involved/involves products that are legally sold by major retailers and produced by some of the biggest names in the industry that either had slightly more flash powder in them making their effects slightly more impressive. However, from what I read, it seems that it eventually turned into the CPSC finding the products that were most popular (particularly aerial shells and repeaters ("cakes") and had the most spectacular effects even within the powder limit observed - and finding "something" that they could claim that allowed them to pull it from the shelves.

On part15.us , (again from what I've read) people have devices that are compliant with the code, but they are claiming technicalities like, "range exceeds 200' " even if the device is technically compliant but broadcasts slightly over that range (say 250').... or even more ridiculous is giving operators trouble because even though there is nobody local using the frequency, it interferes with some station that broadcasts from far far away and that people may be using extra sensitive antennas to listen to locally. Additionally, it seems like the FCC was using information from the forum to try to revise things to make what was currently legal - illegal.

I just worry that the same thing could happen to us. For example, just as an example (perhaps far fetched) - using posts about hollow-point ammunition to make false claims trying to get legislators to ban it. Or something else. It's not like the ATF has never made a ridiculous claim to try to get something banned - for example the Akins Accelerator.... or even more to the point, a shoestring (which I did read though was finally reversed).

Who knows what the ATF has up its sleeve? I don't. I don't want to find out either. That's all I'm saying.

I'm not even saying to you guys to change what you're doing really. I just wanted you guys to be aware of what is happening on other forums with other enthusiast communities.

 

[tnieto2004]

I have the feeling bigger fish are to be fried!

 

[BlackBearME]

CNYCacher said:

Basically .cheese., we all know it already.

This kind of thing happened to geocachers in SC. All of a sudden a bill came up banning geocaching in a huge portion of public land. Geocachers went to fight the bill and were floored by the amount of anti-geocaching propaganda that the opposition had dredged up from geocaching.com. Most of it was painted in a negative light and/or out of context, but the lesson was learned.

CNYCacher
Do you have a link for this? I'd be interested in reading up on this.

And yes, what others said. Basically
A) If I say something out loud, it's with the expectation that someone could hear it, so I don't say anything I don't want anyone else to know.
B) If I type it on the internet, it's with the expectation that someone could read it that I would rather not, whether it be authorities or my mother.

 

[PercyShelley]

Even assuming the BATFE or some similar organization does watch these forums, what do we have to worry about? This forum does not have a culture that tolerates how-to discussions of illegal activities. Sure, people have stated in the abstract things like how easy it would be to make blowback SMGs on a CNC machine, or the very basics of silencer construction, or what modifications one would have to make to an AR gas system to get it to run at shorter barrel lengths, but there's nobody here advocating anything but the strictest adherence to the laws. A lot of people here just happen to be qualified gunsmiths, or otherwise knowledgeable, so the discussion of working parts may be done in detail.

That's just shop talk.

Y'hear that, you jack-booted thugs? We're being good little boys and girls! It's not that we're scared of you personally, but we're all too good-looking for prison.

 

[SamTuckerMTNMAN]

all forums are scrutinized, public web spots, photos, and blogs. it is SOP, it's how most of our local gang intellingence is garnered where I work, and live. nothing new, if you didnt know about this you were behind the boat years ago.

st

ps - and the day we censor ourselves from legal activities because of fear of a lesser man with a position of authority, then we must clearly decide if it is merely a tactic or that we are acquiescing to the destruction of what most of us hold dear as citizens of the United States. This may be a decision that we will all have to make, at some point, I suppose.

 

[Wayne G.]

WOHOO!!! Made it in before the lock!

Originally Posted by KiltedClaymore
*puts on tinfoil hat* TAKE THAT BIG BROTHER!

Tinfoil hat sign

I laughed out loud at that!

 

[Justin]

If you post it on the internet, it's public. Anyone with a computer and a dial up connection can read what's posted here.

Which really does cause me to wonder about all of the armchair revolutionaries who loudly proclaim their plans on the intertron at the slightest provocation.

 

[strat81]

Not to stand up for so called "child predators", but since when is that a federal crime? And even if it is, what possible interpretation of the constitution makes it possible for it to be a federal crime?

IANAL, but:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002251----000-.html

(a) Any person who employs, uses, persuades, induces, entices, or coerces any minor to engage in, or who has a minor assist any other person to engage in, or who transports any minor in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, with the intent that such minor engage in, any sexually explicit conduct for the purpose of producing any visual depiction of such conduct, shall be punished as provided under subsection (e), if such person knows or has reason to know that such visual depiction will be transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed, if that visual depiction was produced using materials that have been mailed, shipped, or transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means, including by computer, or if such visual depiction has actually been transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed.
(b) Any parent, legal guardian, or person having custody or control of a minor who knowingly permits such minor to engage in, or to assist any other person to engage in, sexually explicit conduct for the purpose of producing any visual depiction of such conduct shall be punished as provided under subsection (e) of this section, if such parent, legal guardian, or person knows or has reason to know that such visual depiction will be transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed, if that visual depiction was produced using materials that have been mailed, shipped, or transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means, including by computer, or if such visual depiction has actually been transported in interstate or foreign commerce or mailed.
(c)
(1) Any person who, in a circumstance described in paragraph (2), employs, uses, persuades, induces, entices, or coerces any minor to engage in, or who has a minor assist any other person to engage in, any sexually explicit conduct outside of the United States, its territories or possessions, for the purpose of producing any visual depiction of such conduct, shall be punished as provided under subsection (e).
(2) The circumstance referred to in paragraph (1) is that—
(A) the person intends such visual depiction to be transported to the United States, its territories or possessions, by any means, including by computer or mail; or
(B) the person transports such visual depiction to the United States, its territories or possessions, by any means, including by computer or mail.
(d)
(1) Any person who, in a circumstance described in paragraph (2), knowingly makes, prints, or publishes, or causes to be made, printed, or published, any notice or advertisement seeking or offering—
(A) to receive, exchange, buy, produce, display, distribute, or reproduce, any visual depiction, if the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and such visual depiction is of such conduct; or
(B) participation in any act of sexually explicit conduct by or with any minor for the purpose of producing a visual depiction of such conduct;
shall be punished as provided under subsection (e).
(2) The circumstance referred to in paragraph (1) is that—
(A) such person knows or has reason to know that such notice or advertisement will be transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means including by computer or mailed; or
(B) such notice or advertisement is transported in interstate or foreign commerce by any means including by computer or mailed.
(e) Any individual who violates, or attempts or conspires to violate, this section shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less than 15 years nor more than 30 years, but if such person has one prior conviction under this chapter, chapter 71, chapter 109A, or chapter 117, or under section 920 of title 10 (article 120 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), or under the laws of any State relating to the sexual exploitation of children, such person shall be fined under this title and imprisoned for not less than 25 years nor more than 50 years, but if such person has 2 or more prior convictions under this chapter, chapter 71, chapter 109A, or chapter 117, or under section 920 of title 10 (article 120 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice), or under the laws of any State relating to the sexual exploitation of children, such person shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less than 35 years nor more than life. Any organization that violates, or attempts or conspires to violate, this section shall be fined under this title. Whoever, in the course of an offense under this section, engages in conduct that results in the death of a person, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

 

[.cheese.]

This forum does not have a culture that tolerates how-to discussions of illegal activities. Sure, people have stated in the abstract things like how easy it would be to make blowback SMGs on a CNC machine, or the very basics of silencer construction, or what modifications one would have to make to an AR gas system to get it to run at shorter barrel lengths, but there's nobody here advocating anything but the strictest adherence to the laws.

Which really does cause me to wonder about all of the armchair revolutionaries who loudly proclaim their plans on the intertron at the slightest provocation.

Example: That thread not too long ago that was something like, "How will we know when it's time to revolt?"

posting treason on a public forum = never a good idea and is ammo that can be used against ALL of us. Personally, I don't want to be lumped into the same category as the folks who post that stuff.

 

[illspirit]

I just worry that the same thing could happen to us. For example, just as an example (perhaps far fetched) - using posts about hollow-point ammunition to make false claims trying to get legislators to ban it. Or something else. It's not like the ATF has never made a ridiculous claim to try to get something banned - for example the Akins Accelerator.... or even more to the point, a shoestring (which I did read though was finally reversed).

On the contrary, I think we (well maybe not we as in THR, as it's kinda low road?) could exploit the anti-gun people's zeal for finding controversy.

Imagine if one were to make a topic about something absurd. As an exaggerated example, maybe claim that sealing a dab of lemon pudding in a JHP with wax will cause a chemical reaction that instantly dissolves kevlar. And that it would even work with something relatively weak like .17 HMR. Next have a number of people play along and pretend it worked. Then have someone anonymously forward the link to the Brady Bunch or something, and watch as they make bigger fools of themselves shrieking about a new, imaginary "cop killer" bullet.

Sort of like how a prank between two websites about a fake new "drug" ended up as this LEO intelligence brief and on a couple of local TV news reports: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/1105072jenkem1.html (warning: it's a kinda gross description, some text may be be NSFW)

 

[Thernlund]

Imagine if one were to make a topic about something absurd. As an exaggerated example, maybe claim that sealing a dab of lemon pudding in a JHP with wax will cause a chemical reaction that instantly dissolves kevlar. And that it would even work with something relatively weak like .17 HMR. Next have a number of people play along and pretend it worked. Then have someone anonymously forward the link to the Brady Bunch or something, and watch as they make bigger fools of themselves shrieking about a new, imaginary "cop killer" bullet.

That would be one hell of an interesting experiment.


-T.

 

[Werewolf]

That would be one hell of an interesting experiment.

And wouldn't actually be difficult to conduct. There are a number of THR members who are also signed up with the Brady crowd just so they can keep tabs on what they're doing. All it would take is one of them forwarding the link with appropriate language describing the horror of it all.

I think the younger crowd calls that PWND or some such rediculous terminology.

It'd be fun (though entirely unethical and lowroad). Off the top of my head though I can think of at least one moderator that would shut any such thread down pretty darn quick and would probably (maybe rightly so) delete it (I'm torn between the Brady crowd deserving such and it being a really unethical thing to do).

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Welcome to the internet where you can become informed in an instant right along with everyone else.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

Big Brother may be watching (and that is a pretty big MAY) but I take some comfort in knowing that Big Brother is also completely inept and incompetent.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

That would be one hell of an interesting experiment.

I disagree. We already know that there are people who will accept into their brains and forward on anything without thinking about it critically or making any attempt to verify. We already know there are a lot of people who aren't familiar with guns and fear what they don't understand.

So what exactly would one accomplish by putting such misleading information? Are you looking for some sense of superiority by pulling a fast one over on people who clearly are the low-hanging fruit for such a venture? Perhaps you think they will laugh it off and say, "Gee, those gun guys got us. We have a lot to learn." That is, of course, entirely unlikely. In essence, you are trading a few self-righteous giggles for the dubious priviledge of increasng the already overwhelming amount of disinformation floating around. No matter how you look at it, that's not a good exchange. In the end, you'll never reach everyone that got the wrong message and wll merely be contributing to more people being having misconceptions about firearms. There isn't much challenge in duping the hoi polloi. Actually educating them, therein les the trick. It's like the Carolyn McCarthy barrel shroud thing. Sure, we all got a laugh. But in the end, nothing was accomplished.

 

[ilbob]

being a really unethical thing to do

no more unethical then your typical police sting operations.