Something is still not Kosher

[billybob44]

OK guys ..... I am going back and edit my post so you all can "Have Your Way"!

Lee has got to be the best reloading products made!

Will that make it "OK" with you all?

I will refrain from making any more comments about Lee products or threads.

Thanks
Jimmy K

OK Jim. After reading three post (#29,#33,+#44) The post should read: Lee Dies, the best for the PRICE. Lee dies will never equal Dillion dies, just as Dillon dies will never equal Lee's prices. I agree that Lee makes GREAT products for the PRICE. I do NOT agree that Lee makes the BEST products. And yes, I do use some Lee products....

 

[LiveLife]

I occasionally had to use two hands to start the lever up and the case would jar loose from the die. My bench was actually flexing.

Epicurean, I have set up dozens of new Lee reloaders with brand new Lee carbide dies and never come across this (I just set one up for a new reloader last month). I don't know of anyone using Lee carbide pistol dies with lube either.

Have you contacted Lee?

 

[smoking357]

Smoking-

I'm decapping because Midway had the Lee Safety Prime on backorder and I don't want to handle the primers. I'm using the RCBS APS system which is OK since I'm new and taking my time. Right now I'm using the turret like a single stage to help me develop good skills and safety.

Acting like a single stage won't help much with skill or safety. The RCBS is a fine priming system. Here's how you use it in conjunction with the Lee:

1. Insert case into Stage 1. Cycle arm up and down.
2. Take case out, prime in RCBS.
3. Put case back in press (make sure you're using the Lee Auto-Disc Powder Measure), cycle arm up and down.
4. Put bullet on top of case, cycle arm up and down.

Repeat 1-4.

You can make lots of rounds in a hurry this way, and powder charging on the press should completely eliminate the chance of double charging.

As for your offending die, I had a Lee decapping die with burrs in it. I took the decapper out and ran fine grit sandpaper on the inside. It cleared the problem. I have never had to lube pistol cases with Lee carbide dies, especially tiny cases like the 9mm.

 

[LiveLife]

FWIW, I deprime/size on a single stage and hand prime all of my cases (you can do separate deprime/size on any turret/progressive also).

It really speeds up the flare/powder charge/bullet seat on the progressive and with much less effort.

 

[jcwit]

I don't know of anyone using Lee carbide pistol dies with lube either.

I lube (teflon spray) cases before sizing with Lee carbide dies. Just to make things easier.

I deprime with a rubber mallet and pin punch. Do this while watching TV.
Then resize, then tumble, then charge with a Lee auto disk, then seat the bullet and crimp. No FCD, not needed if you set up your seating die correctly. This is for handgun brass.

I reload in batches and check the charges when the loading block is full ready for bullet seating.

Just they way I feel comfortable reloading, might not be the fastest, but then at my age I'm not in a hurry.

 

[LiveLife]

I meant "personally" know ...

 

[OldRotorHead]

I have had this problem recently, with the Lee carbide decapping die, but only with Blazer Brass cases. Out of curiosity, I will take some of them out of quarantine and try lubing them to see if it makes a difference. I have had no issues with other (mostly Winchester) brass.

 

[LiveLife]

I have had this problem recently, with the Lee carbide decapping die, but only with Blazer Brass cases.

Are you having the same problem as the OP of rim ripping out of the shell holder? And only with Blazer brass cases?

OP: Tonight I continued my decapping process. I've done maybe 300 or so and have had three cases stick in the die! The rim is ripping out of the shellholder at the beginning of the down stroke. Fortunately Lee dies are not that hard to get a stuck case out of. All three cases have been Blazer.

Is this normal? My arm is killing me.

 

[Walkalong]

I never lube 9MM cases and never have any problems with Blazer or any other brass. A-Merc feels as if it is getting squished if it gets passed visual inspections makes it all the way to the sizer, but it doesn't stick or tear. I just scrap it then.

I find this thread intriguing.

 

[LiveLife]

I never lube 9MM cases and never have any problems with Blazer or any other brass. ... I find this thread intriguing.

Me too.

I have reread this thread several times to see exactly what's causing the rim to be ripped out of the shell holder, and only for Blazer brass. In my 250K+ rounds of reloading, I have never ripped any rim off cases.


So the problem is only with Blazer brass? I wonder if these were "super hot" reloads someone shot and left for range pickup.

Tonight I continued my decapping process. I've done maybe 300 or so and have had three cases stick in the die! The rim is ripping out of the shellholder at the beginning of the down stroke. Fortunately Lee dies are not that hard to get a stuck case out of. All three cases have been Blazer. Is this normal? My arm is killing me.

Epicurean seems to be using carbide resizing die that should not require use of any lube...

Brand new Lee 4 die set. Should be carbide. - yes I can see it and the literature with the die set specifically says carbide sizing die.

So, perhaps Epicurean may have picked up some "super hot" spent cases. I size bulged Glocked range brass all the time, and no, I do not use lube.

No scratches, etc. Some of this brass was range pick up so it's possible I'm running into some Glock fired brass.

I wonder if Epicurean tumbled the cases before sizing. I found dirty range brass to be harder to size than after being tumbled for 20-30 minutes in walnut.

I used the Hornady wax to finish off all my clean 9mm brass. No runs, no drips, no errors! The difference in the resistance in the die was truly amazing. I just kept wax on my fingers (about very fifth case I put more on) and processed twice as fast as before. I now hold the assertion that "carbide dies don't need to be lubed" in very low regard.

I clean all of my new dies by wiping off any residue/oil before installing them on the press...

... apparently the surface of my die is lacking or perhaps the die was made on the low side of tolerances.

I wonder if Epicurean contacted Lee - would be curious what their response was ....

I'm convinced I have a rare problem with a rough finish on the face of the die bore. Before I tried the lube I occasionally had to use two hands to start the lever up and the case would jar loose from the die. My bench was actually flexing. The lube made the problem disappear and the resistance was about the same as my .38 die.

I happened to buy a less than perfect but ultimately functional product. I own a small manufacturing business and strive for zero defects. In a perfect world the goal would be attainable; but in reality it's impossible. I don't hold Lee in any lower regard - I'll buy more of their products.

 

[GooseGestapo]

It's not the dies, IT'S THE CASES....

9mm cases are tapered, and the taper makes the cases much harder to size, even in a carbide die. I too have noticed a difference in the brass alloy that is used in the Blazer. Seems to have more Zinc..... And if shot in a large chambered barrel, can be difficult to size.

I've loaded several MILLION 9's, with several different make of dies, and they're all essentially same. Non carbide dies DO require normal lubrication. Carbide dies work better with some lubricant.

I use common household FURNITURE WAX, The spray kind like "Pledge". I spray a small amont in the bottom of a plastic container (my favorite is a 1lb powder container such as used by Hodgdon...) and then place the brass in the container and "swirl" the brass around to evenly coat them. This prevents a large amount of lube from entering the case mouths, and dosen't kill the powder or primers as a petroleum based lube will. If in doubt, allow the cases to dry over night to allow the H20 from the wax to evaporate. I use progressive loaders, so I don't over-do the lube, and have never had a problem with "duds"..... I have shot some record scores in NRA PPC with ammo I loaded, however...... with Lee dies too!

 

[Epicurean]

To clarify, the rims were not ripped off the cases but the rims "dog eared" out of the shell holder. I tossed the cases so I can't post a pic. When I drove the stuck cases out I did not have to whack them very hard and used only a few strokes.

To answer bds's questions:

The brass was tumbled for about 4 hours in Lizard Litter prior to sizing.

It is possible that I picked up some Glock or some previously super hot loaded brass; but all of the brass was difficult to size to varying degrees. My only previous experience resizing was about 150 rounds of .38 spl several days before. The resistance difference was tremendous!

I have not contacted Lee since the lube made the problem disappear. At this point I figure the problem is resolved and contacting them would be a little like asking them to help me fix something that ain't broke; i.e. I can make it work with a little (not unrealistic) effort. The next time I size 9mm will be in a normal scenario where all the dies are used sequentially. If the use of lube becomes problematic I'll give Lee a call.

Being so new to reloading I have no reference point on any problem I encounter, but I feel very sure that the resistance without lube is not normal. The "work around" is not overly tedious however.

 

[Walkalong]

the rims "dog eared" out of the shell holder

Loose shell holder?

 

[Epicurean]

Walkalong - I don't think so. Again, I have no reference points but the shell holder requires me to snap it out. They rotate freely but don't migrate out of the ram.

 

[LiveLife]

... the rims were not ripped off the cases but the rims "dog eared" out of the shell holder.

My apologies Epicurean, I did misread your post:

The rim is ripping out of the shellholder

But what makes me curious is that why only the Blazer brass? You didn't have the same problem with other headstamp brass? Do you have the same problem with Blazer brass still?

 

[Epicurean]

bds - Only Blazer stuck in the die, but all headstamps were very difficult without lube. I processed all of my clean brass and have had no need to clean and size more, so I've not revisited the issue. Since this seems to be of concern, I'll pop my die back in, sort by headstamp, process some unlubed cases and try to report my findings. It's impossible to quantify the resistance, and qualifying it is difficult since I'm so new to the hobby.

 

[Walkalong]

I have no reference points but the shell holder requires me to snap it out.

Sorry. I wasn't clear.

Not a shell holder loose in the press, but a shell holder with loose tolerances where it holds the brass.

 

[Epicurean]

While waiting on some more 9mm brass to tumble, I pilfered through my "man cave" garbage and found two of the cases. My camera and skills are not in Walkalong's league - my apologies. I don't know if this helps but I hope so. Bear in mind, these have been driven from the die, so they are kinda rough.

 

[Epicurean]

Walkalong - sorry, I misunderstood the question. As a matter of fact, I did have to ride the case up with my left hand to make sure it properly centered as it entered the die. I thought that was normal though.

 

[jcwit]

Got alot of marking on the sides of the cases to my way of thinking. Also quite a line at the stopping point.

 

[Epicurean]

jc - yep, at that line it was physically impossible to go any further and they were so jammed at that point that they couldn't be retrieved. Some of those markings might be from when I drove them out. Again, lube made the problem go away. Beats me!

 

[Walkalong]

I'd love to try those cases in another die.

 

[Epicurean]

Walkalong - I'll send them to you if you'd like. PM me with an address.

 

[jcwit]

Have you mic'ed the case to see what the size is? Just thinking the die might be undersized. I'm going to try the Pledge lube that GooseGestapo mentioned, if it works like he says I won't have to spend the extra on teflon lube. I realize that lubeing is not required but I do it because I'm lazy, or old, or maybe both.

Case dia. at .200 thousands forward from the base should be .391, and at .700 thousands forward of base .381.

I definitely would get ahold of Lee tho. I'm waiting to hear what Walkalong has to say also.

 

[jcwit]

And here He is now.