SON OF a B****! Just broke screw head off of scope mount! HELP PLEASE!!!

[BigBlueEyedDevil]

I just picked up my Savage 10FP. I was installing the front mount. It's the Leupold STD system. Anyways, the screw was a little tight going in, I added some oil to it and I was tightening it down and the head broke off. What do I do now???

Is my rig completely screwed now??? I'm really upset. Please advise.

 

[wintermute76]

Can you take the mount off and have a little nub of the bolt sticking up? You may be able to get some vise grips on it and back it out.

If it's snapped off flush, you may be able to get a screw extractor on it, I'm not sure if they come that small tho.

Good luck on getting it straightened out.

 

[BigBlueEyedDevil]

Can you take the mount off and have a little nub of the bolt sticking up? You may be able to get some vise grips on it and back it out.

If it's snapped off flush, you may be able to get a screw extractor on it, I'm not sure if they come that small tho.

Good luck on getting it straightened out.

Nope, the WHOLE head broke off...she's lower than flush.

 

[redneck]

How big of a screw are we talking about here? If there is a stub sticking out, try carefully remove it with some pliars or vise grips (don't break it off!)
If there is no stub, or you can't twist it out its probably time to go to a gunsmith. You could try a screw extractor but I haven't seen any that small.

Someone with the right equipment might be able to weld a peice of music wire onto the end of the screw and twist it out. In the end it might need to be drilled out and re-tapped.

 

[Steve Smith]

Moving to the Gunsmithing forum...those guys are Eggspurts over there.

 

[BigBlueEyedDevil]

How big of a screw are we talking about here? If there is a stub sticking out, try carefully remove it with some pliars or vise grips (don't break it off!)
If there is no stub, or you can't twist it out its probably time to go to a gunsmith. You could try a screw extractor but I haven't seen any that small.

Someone with the right equipment might be able to weld a peice of music wire onto the end of the screw and twist it out. In the end it might need to be drilled out and re-tapped.

The screw is counter-sinked. I think the only hope would be to drill it out. But can that be done and still salvage the original mounting holes? Or will I have to step up to a larger screw??

 

[Barrelmaker]

Which hole are we talking about here? If it's the one over the chamber then it is a little more involved than if one of the other holes. If you know someone with a mill or very good drill press just use a center drill 1/8th shank and center drill the screw and follow up with a drill about 112 thousanths diameter and drill through. take a small punch and just knock whats left through the hole and your good to go. If it's over the chamber then did you bottom the screw out on the barrel? I prefer to take the barrel off and use the aformentioned procedure unless the screw is binding on the barrel threads.

 

[ocabj]

Take it to a gunsmith. If anything, call one up for advice first.

What makes this very difficult to solve is that the screw is fairly small to begin with. I haven't seen a screw extractor that small before.

Unless a smith has a way to get the screw out without ruining the threads, more likely than not, the smith will end up drilling the screw out and retapping the threads for a slightly smaller screw.

You mentioned that the screw was tight when screwing in. There may have been something wrong with the base screw or the receiver scope base thread to begin with. You should never need oil to screw in a base screw.

 

[Master Blaster]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=79286&highlight=Savage+Leupold+screw

The front screws are a problem with the leupold mount for the new accutrigger savages. I had problems with mine and eventually scrapped it for a weaver mount, (after several conversations with leupold customer service, about the inadequacy of the front screws where they insisted all was good) which has held up flawlessly through several hundred rounds now.

HMM I re-read, you will have to take it to a gunsmith or a real good machine shop, to be drilled and have the threads chased, maybe retapped for a llarger screw.

 

[longrifleman]

I had a similar problem with a sporterized P-17 Enfield with a Leupold base last week. My son was checking the zero and the mount fell of. I got a panicked call at work. It was kinda funny. All three screws sheared off with two below the reciever. I drilled a small hole in the screws. Don't remember the size, just picked one from the numbered drill index that was small enough to miss the threads. I didn't have an extractor small enough and like others I havent seen one that small either. What I used for one was a tapered oval needle file tapped lightly (I'm serious about lightly) into the screw. If the screw isn't stripped it should back out fairly easily. If it is stripped then you may have to drill it out and use a bigger screw.

 

[GuntechInc]

If you have a Dremel type tool, you can use a fine pointed diamond grinder shaped like a narrow cone. Grind a slot into the broken screw and then use a small screwdriver to remove it. I've done it many times and it works like a charm

 

[Jim K]

The screw can be drilled out using a good starter drill and a solid drill press; a scope mounting jig helps too. Cutting a slot with a Dremel tool is also an idea, and a dental burr is a good tool for the job as it is quite small and very hard.

I suspect the screws are bottoming out and breaking before the head comes up solid. The reason is that the screws provided with those kits are often made long, since the base maker has no idea how deep a hole is. It is intended that the screws be cut to the right length when installing the mount. Another factor is that IIRC, Leupold uses Torx screws which are easy to break since it is easy to put on a lot of pressure without noticing it.

If you do get the screw out, I recommend going to 8x40 screws (Brownells) as they provide a much more solid setup, especially with a high recoil rifle. Also, if doing your own work, buy a Screw Gizzie (yes, that is what it is called) from Brownells so you can grind screws to the right length.

Jim

 

[kimbernut]

Broken base screw

Yes,they do make easy-outs that small. any well supplied hardware store should have them in stock. Take your time and center punch the bolt shaft first to keep your drill from wandering. This is not a difficult job- just don't get in a hurry. Occasionally there is enough of a burr left on the broken shaft that a jewelers screwdriver is all that it takes to rotate it out if there is no pressure on it.

 

[gamachinist]

From 20 plus years of dealing with broken bolts,

DO NOT USE A TWIST TYPE '' EASY OUT'' ON ANYTHING THAT IS SMALL (less that a 3/8 " hole in the broken bolt small) AND JAMMED,BOTTOMED OUT AND TWISTED OFF OR RUSTED IN PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so tired of drilling(and pounding) those things out. :banghead:
If it is stuck,a small twist type extractor will break before it moves it 99.9 % of the time. If the bolt or screw got loose and broke in service,a lot of the time one of those will get it out.

If you break one off in a screw in a blind hole,the only thing that will drill it is carbide or diamond.The best way to remove one is with a edm of some type,or use a tig welder to burn it out.

Most of the time,someone takes a $20.00 job that I can make money on,and turns it into a $100.00 job that I don't really make money on,because of the increased time and tooling expense!So we both loose.

The advice of using something like a small screwdriver is sound,just don't snap it off in there for the same reasons.
When you get down to screws that small,any extractor type tool is easily broken,so please be careful,it will snap before you know it has happened.

A left hand drill bit might get it to unscrew,even if it is jammed.When it gets to the bottom,it might grab it as it breaks through and unscrew it.
But make sure whatever you try,that you get the drill started in the center and it doesn't walk to one side.Use a grind stone in a Dremmel or similar tool to flatten the broken end out first,then center punch lightly to make sure it is in the middle,then deepen it after you are sure it is centered.

Sorry for the rant,I spent about two days working trying to help out a good customer that was caught in the middle because someone messed it up before they called the shop!I think I made about minimum wage on that job,and that didn't even pay the power bill for the month!
Regards,Robert.

 

[Jim K]

I agree with everything GAMACHINIST says. I have had little luck (spelled "none") in using an easy out on small screws. I have drilled them out and even cut them out using a Dremel tool and a dental burr, but that is not a job for anyone with the "shakes".

Fortunately, that never happened to me, as my "trainer" taught me early on to measure the hole depth and then either trim the screw or drill the hole deeper. It is much better to avoid the problem than to try to correct it.

I think the problem here is compounded by the screw bottoming out; BBED didn't recognize the situation and kept trying to tighten the screw until it broke. That means the threads are really jammed and the screw is very tight, so no easy out or small screwdriver is going to get it out.

Jim

 

[redneck]

I couldn't get it work when I broke a #2-56 tap in a knife handle but I have been told that in instances like this sometimes you can weld on a peice of music wire and twist the peice out.
You use a stick welder, ground out the peice that your screw is stuck in and put the music wire inthe stinger. Touch it to the peice a few seconds and then release the stinger. It might work well on a screw, the tap I tried was HSS and just wouldn't stick with the type of wire/drill rod I had to try weld to it. If your careful there isn't too much chance of making your situation any worse trying this. But at this point I think I'd just take it to a gunsmith.

 

[gamachinist]

Jim,
I get more broken bolts out with left handed bits than extractors!

Redneck,
HSS taps are hard to weld on,so I'm not surprised it didn't work for you.

One thing that does work is to heat a bolt or screw until it is red hot all the way through.As it heats up,it stretches(or expands,depending on how you look at it).
But since it can't grow in diameter more than the metal it is trapped in,it tends to grow longer.As it cools,it shrinks in both directions,making it smaller in diameter than before,allowing it to unscrew.

Unfortunalty,this is hard to do with a flush broken small screw in a gun.
This may be helpful when welding a nut onto a broken stub of a screw,the heat helps to expand it.

Regards,Robert.

 

[BigBlueEyedDevil]

I should get my head examined.

After looking at this thing for an hour, and reading all of your advice, I loosened up one screw on the base, took it out and the base slid OFF of the broken screw. So it was exposed out of the hole in my reciever. Used some channel locks and it came out.

I think the problem was that the torx head screws from Leupold were too long. I'm going with the Ken Farrell one piece base. Lesson learned. Don't skimp on rings or bases.

 

[gamachinist]

Well,
Congratulations!
I'm glad that the solution to that problem was a simple one,instead of the nightmares that usually come through my door!
Robert.

 

[Jim K]

Hi, BBED,

The problem was not the fault of the mount. Checking screw length to prevent bottoming is a normal part of mount installation, and you have to do it with any mount and any screws.

Jim

 

[ocabj]

I think the problem was that the torx head screws from Leupold were too long. I'm going with the Ken Farrell one piece base. Lesson learned. Don't skimp on rings or bases.

Longer is better than shorter. I had the Leupold STDs on my .308 early on (then switched to the Farrell one-piece) and the problem I had was that the screws were stripping because they were too short and not enough threads were grabbing. I ended up getting various lengths of screws from Leupold and used the longest ones and ground them down until I was sure there was not barrel and bolt contact.

I had to grind the one of the screws on my Farrell mount (the front screw over the bolt lug channel) because it was making contact with the bolt head.

I just installed another Farrell base on my Savage .260 project rifle last night and I didn't have any problems with long screws, though, this time around.