SP-101 for woods protection - which ammo?

[dBA]

I've got an SP-101 in 357 magnum, and I'm curious to know how recoil would be with some of the heavier woods-protection rounds? Does anyone have experience shooting this type of ammo from a snubbie? How much velocity would I lose over a 4" barrel?

Thanks

 

[rcmodel]

From a percentage standpoint, the most dangerous animal you are likely to meet in the woods is a marijuana grower high on crack.

Normal SD JHP .357 ammo will do nicely.

rc

 

[ArmedBear]

There's some snubbie-specific .357 ammo available now. I just picked some up.

For woods protection here, I use very hard alloy LSWC, handloaded hot. Depends on what you expect to attack you where you are.

I find the Model 60 to be no problem with hot loads. Could be a PITA for an all-day range session, but no big deal to shoot off a few.

Try it before you trust it, though. Know what to expect.

 

[dBA]

ArmedBear - do you have a link to that ammo?

I'm just south of you in Utah. The worst I would expect to run into are black bears.

 

[ArmedBear]

Down at the bottom of the page: http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx

I'm not sure I'd want to use them on black bears, though. They are designed to expand reliably at middling velocities, just to be sure. The problem is, they might expand too soon when you're talking about a bear (much tougher than a human). You don't want that.

Hence, my 158 grain LSWC Oregon Trail handloads over 23.5 grains of IMR 4227.

 

[dBA]

Does anyone have experience shooting Buffalo Bore or DoubleTap ammo from a 2 1/4" SP-101?

 

[ArmedBear]

I don't think that stuff is appreciably hotter than what I shoot in my 2 1/4" Model 60.

 

[Birdmang]

From a percentage standpoint, the most dangerous animal you are likely to meet in the woods is a marijuana grower high on crack.

Normal SD JHP .357 ammo will do nicely.

rc

Crackheads growing marijuana? That doesn't make sense. Crackheads don't grow marijuana, they just look for crack.

 

[jibbs]

I only carry DoubleTap now these days. Cheaper then DPX and has better velocities IMO. I carry a S&W 640, which is very similar to you sp-101, I considered your gun but like the feel of the S&W trigger. Mike McNett produces a great product and this is the only ammo I will carry. Plus most of his ammo comes availible GoldDot, which is pretty much the standard for a carry bullet as it expands reliably and retains its bullet weight. I carry both of these rounds for carry, the 125s are in the revolver and the 158s are in my speedloader.
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=48
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=49


You can also get barnes bullets which I think are similar to the DPX but not %100, either way they are 100 copper and probably not a good choice for a bear, where you would want to have a hardcast lead bullet. Heres is what I would carry for a bear stopper in .357
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_27&products_id=152

Don't be scared about going with DoubleTap, great ammo and would recommend them to everyone. Plus when ammo was hard to come by, Mike was filling orders like there was no shortage, so I guess its good to be under the radar.

 

[Cosmoline]

I shoot heavy 180 and 200 grain solid hardcast loads from B-Bore and others out of my Speed Six all the time. I shot them from the SP before that. They recoil a bit more but are actually less "snappy" and have less blowback than the smaller faster rounds. I like them.

Crackheads growing marijuana? That doesn't make sense.

LOL That's an excellent point, actually. They don't have the patience to grow plants.

 

[cluttonfred]

Either of these first two Buffalo Bore loads should do the trick. They are a bit pricey, though.

 

[rcmodel]

Crackheads growing marijuana? That doesn't make sense.

Well, I obviously am no expert on the subtlety's of drug use.

However, I still contend that you are far more likely to be attacked by a scum-bag on drugs & two legs in the wild then by an animal.

rc

 

[Cougfan2]

SP-101 for woods protection - which ammo?

Personally I wouldn't think any thing short of a .50 cal would have enough penetration for Old Growth. However, you might be able to take down a decent size sapling with 12 ga. slugs.

Couldn't help myself.

 

[The_Shootist]

BB

I've shot the Buffalo Bore Heavy .357 mag 158 gr stuff out of my 4" bbl 686+ and it stung. Shooting it out of my 3" bbl SP 101 I imagine would be a vaguely unpleasant experience.

Heck, just shooting their version of the .38 spl FBI load out of my Ruger got my attention!

 

[Landric]

I've shot my own handloads, 13.0 grains of 2400 with a 170 grain SWC out of my 2 1/4" SP101. In fact, I shot an entire BUG match (60 rounds) last weekend with just that ammunition. It chronographs at about 950 fps from the short barrel, and around 1075 from a 4" tube.

I would imagine it would work well on both humans and animals, though penetration on two legged targets might be a bit much, in the woods that wouldn't be as much of a problem.

Recoil out of the SP was stout, but not hard to control.

 

[VA27]

158gr Gold Dot or 180gr CastCore Federal. Wear earplugs...and sunglasses.

 

[ECVMatt]

I bought an SP 101 for just the same reason. I have carried it with many types of different ammo but settled on a load similar to Landric's. It works fine for just about everything.

I also recently sent my SP to Hamilton Bowen for some work. It was completed in about 3 weeks and turned my SP into my favorite backwoods toter. It really changed the gun from a very functional tool to a slick, easy to hit with revolver.

I will try to post some pictures when time allows.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

dBA,
I'm guessing you are asking about which ammo to carry in your SP101 because that's the gun you have available. IMO that's really not the best revolver to carry if you are going to load it up with heavy .357 Magnum ammo so if you have a larger revolver available I would suggest using it. Also IMO using a 180gr bullet in a short revolver might be a problem because the excessive recoil because of the heavy bullet will pull you off target making a follow up shot difficult.

Normally I would also suggest a heavy hard cast bullet for woods carry but from a small short barrel revolver I wouldn't go over a 158gr bullet. Actually a 140gr bullet would probably be best from that revolver. (yes, I have shot all that ammo in my S&W M640) Penetration is important with thick skinned animals more than expansion. You might want to use a JSP bullet instead of a lead bullet, it will produce the same effect but with factory ammo a jacketed round is loaded with much more velocity than a lead round.

In .357 Magnum ammo Winchester 158gr JSP Part #X3575P, Remington 158gr SP Part #R357M3 or Federal 158gr JSP Part #AE357A will probably be fine in a snub nose revolver and you won't spend a ton of money on them. You will also be able to afford to practice with that ammo too. The exception to that might be Federal 140gr Vital-Shok ammo Part #P357XB1 which uses a Barnes Expander bullet designed for controlled expansion for hunting.

Just a few things to think about, hope it helps a little.

 

[kdstrick]

dBA,
I'm guessing you are asking about which ammo to carry in your SP101 because that's the gun you have available. IMO that's really not the best revolver to carry if you are going to load it up with heavy .357 Magnum ammo so if you have a larger revolver available I would suggest using it. Also IMO using a 180gr bullet in a short revolver might be a problem because the excessive recoil because of the heavy bullet will pull you off target making a follow up shot difficult.

Normally I would also suggest a heavy hard cast bullet for woods carry but from a small short barrel revolver I wouldn't go over a 158gr bullet. Actually a 140gr bullet would probably be best from that revolver. (yes, I have shot all that ammo in my S&W M640) Penetration is important with thick skinned animals more than expansion. You might want to use a JSP bullet instead of a lead bullet, it will produce the same effect but with factory ammo a jacketed round is loaded with much more velocity than a lead round.

In .357 Magnum ammo Winchester 158gr JSP Part #X3575P, Remington 158gr SP Part #R357M3 or Federal 158gr JSP Part #AE357A will probably be fine in a snub nose revolver and you won't spend a ton of money on them. You will also be able to afford to practice with that ammo too. The exception to that might be Federal 140gr Vital-Shok ammo Part #P357XB1 which uses a Barnes Expander bullet designed for controlled expansion for hunting.

Just a few things to think about, hope it helps a little.

DOH! He took my answer!!!

Well... Ok... he gave a better answer than I could have. I was just gonna say that I wouldn't go over a 158 grn in such a short bbl.

 

[Cosmoline]

Also IMO using a 180gr bullet in a short revolver might be a problem because the excessive recoil because of the heavy bullet will pull you off target making a follow up shot difficult.

I have not found that to be the case. Have you shot much of it out of snub? It really isn't as bad as you would expect. If I have time tomorrow I'll do a demonstration vid with the speed six.

 

[dougwx12]

If you dig around in google, you'll find that a 2" .357 is pretty much just a loud 2" .38. Buffalo bore's 158gr heavy 38 might be easier on the noise/flash/wrist and be similar to the magnum's in a snubbie.

Too bad it's not the 3" version. That's what I use in the woods, and the extra barrel really helps.

 

[Landric]

If you dig around in google, you'll find that a 2" .357 is pretty much just a loud 2" .38. Buffalo bore's 158gr heavy 38 might be easier on the noise/flash/wrist and be similar to the magnum's in a snubbie.

Too bad it's not the 3" version. That's what I use in the woods, and the extra barrel really helps.

Or, if you do some research yourself, you will find that the magnum offers a significant advantage in muzzle velocity over the .38 Special +P, even out of a 2" snubbie.

For instance, the 125 grain .357 Magnum Gold Dot averaged 1242 fps out of my 2 1/4" SP 101, while the 125 grain .38 Special +P Gold Dot averaged 856 fps out of the same gun.

On the other end of the spectrum, my 170 grain Magnum handload averages 200fps faster out of the 2 1/4" SP than the same load in .38 Special, 950 fps vs. 750 fps. That's about 345 ft.-lbs of energy for the magnum vs. about 212 ft.-lbs. for the .38 Special version. I'd say that is a significant improvement.

 

[ArmedBear]

170@950fps is a Magnum load?

 

[Landric]

170@950fps is a Magnum load?

Its not a full house magnum load, but its in magnum brass and around mid-range according to the various load data available. It does about 1100 fps out of a 4" gun.

I'm quite sure its possible to load it up a lot hotter, but I don't have any need to do so. It is significantly more than one will see out of a .38 Special load in a 2" barrel.

 

[dougwx12]

Or, if you do some research yourself, you will find that the magnum offers a significant advantage in muzzle velocity over the .38 Special +P, even out of a 2" snubbie.

For instance, the 125 grain .357 Magnum Gold Dot averaged 1242 fps out of my 2 1/4" SP 101, while the 125 grain .38 Special +P Gold Dot averaged 856 fps out of the same gun.

On the other end of the spectrum, my 170 grain Magnum handload averages 200fps faster out of the 2 1/4" SP than the same load in .38 Special, 950 fps vs. 750 fps. That's about 345 ft.-lbs of energy for the magnum vs. about 212 ft.-lbs. for the .38 Special version. I'd say that is a significant improvement.

125gr isn't terribly interesting in a 'woods protection' article. And it's when they bullets get heavy that the shorter barrel starts to be a handicap. Check out the buffalo bore .38+p 158, 1000fps out of a snubbie. Whether you want to call it low magnum or high 38, whatever.

But take BB's nice 180gr HC load and put it in a snubbie, and you'll be giving yourself wrist pain and muzzle flash for not a lot extra. Hence why I recommended the above load over a magnum loading.

I risk a well deserved ribbing for not checking this with a chrono, but I suspect that a well tuned 158gr+p load designed for snubbies will come out ahead or equal to a generic 158gr magnum loading designed for longer barrels.