Spherical Ball Rifle Powders?

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Joshua M. Smith

Joshua M. Smith

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Hello,

I'm looking for an excellent metering rifle powder.

I used to use Accurate Arms stuff in my pistols and they were near perfect. Those little BB shapes just seems to have no trouble metering at all.

Problem is, not sure where to start. I have experience with Varget (love it for shootability) and H335 (don't like it -- had some problems with it clumping in conditions that the Varget laughed at).

Varget is extruded and H335 is flattened something-or-other. Didn't check to see if it was flattened ball or flake.

If I could stick with Hodgdon that would be great. I don't have to order those; I can run down to the hardware store and buy pretty much what I want there.

Looking at pictures on the 'net, it looks like BL-C(2) might be spherical ball and it's something I can drive down and get. It takes more to work up the same velocities as Varget, but it may be worth it.

What are the best metering rifle powders, and what are the advantages to the different shapes with regard to shootability?

Thanks,

Josh
 
BLC2 is a true ball powder and similar to Varget burn rate. IMLE, it does not perform as good as Varget.

Varget dropped from a measure does pretty good. Other extruded powders you may want to try are 8208xbr or Benchmark (BM works good with light .22gr bullets and light .308 bullets).

CFE223 ???
 
The other thing to keep in mind about metering is making sure that the difference matters. Figure out the extreme spread of you powder measure, make 5 rounds with the highest weight and 5 with the lowest weight surrounding your most accurate load, mix them all up, and see if you get one group or two at the range you usually shoot. Then load up 10 with ball powder dropped from your measure and see if your group is bigger or smaller than the mixed-up one.

I used Win748 for a little while in .30-06 for my Garand and one day I had a couple of hangfires...now I shoot extruded powders. Never had the problem in my .30-30, where I still use it. Ball does meter wonderfully, and if you're shooting .223 or something else where it nearly fills the case, I would certainly give it another try.

For rifle the main options are ball and stick. The length of the stick matters. 4064 is long and meters terribly for me (+/- up to 0.7 grain). Shorter stick powders meter better (which is why Varget meters so well), and VV-N150 meters almost as well as ball for me (+/- 0.2 grain), but it's pricey so I save it for my long-range loads.

-J.
 
Two ball powders that I have found to perform well in my .308 Win are the Accurate Arms 2520 and Win 748. Both meter very well with the nod for accuracy and consistency going to the AA 2520, at least in my rifle. As for stick powders, Reloader 15 from Alliant is my favorite and shoots about the same as the AA 2520, though I need two less grains of 2520 to get the same performance. From what I have read, the 2520 is also good in .223/AR-15 weapons.
 
What'cha want, good metering or good accuracy? Oversimplifying it, but there's a reason why ball powders aren't normally found in match loads. Personally, I haven't found 4895 to be particularly hard to throw charges with in my Redding powder measure.

Don
 
There are some very good metering powders that produce very good accuracy results as well. H322, Benchmark, and IMR 8208XBR come immediately to mind. They are all extruded powders with very small kernels and meter nearly as well as ball powder. They are also all temperature insensitive. Temp sensitivity is one of the primary issues with ball powder. In the cold they can be hard to light, inconsistent and down on velocity and in the heat they can produce excessive pressures (BL-(C)2 is notorious for this).

2520 is also known as the "Camp Perry Powder" since it was what was used in competition loads at one point. I've had good accuracy results using it with heavy bullets in .223, .243 and .204 but I haven't used it in .308.
 
H-380 has turned into one of my favorite rifle powders because of it's excellent metering. I've set the Uniflow and loaded 100 rounds of .30-06 without having to so much as touch the measure. It's extremely consistent. It's not the absolute most accurate powder I've tried, but with 165 grain SSTs, it will shoot right at moa, which is plenty for deer hunting.

I haven't totally abandoned Varget or IMR-4350, but I sure do like the H-380 too.
 
I like and use 748 and BL-C2, mostly in my .223, 6x47, and 7-30 Waters. I also loaded some for a friends .243 with 65grn V-max. I throw all my loads with a lee perfect powder measure, works fine. Honestly tho, that thing works fine with h-4350, and Retumbo also.
 
H335 (don't like it -- had some problems with it clumping
Click to expand...

That's the first problem I have heard about a H-335 metering problem. I have used H-335, W748 and BLC-2 and H-335 meters as good as any of them.
 
Me either. H335 meters great, and I have never had problems with it "clumping".
 
+1 with Rusty - I've been using H335 since about 1975 in 223 and 308 loads. Never had a problem with metering, smooth flow and consistent from my old Lachmiller measure. You might want to give it another try. What powder measure are you using ?
 
Been doing my first 300 reloads using H335 in a Lee Perfect Powder measure, and it's pretty accurate +/-0.1 at most, at least from the beam scale point of view. :)
 
Hello,

I'm using a Lee Perfect Powder measure.

The H335 gave me a couple squib loads. After pulling out the case I found the powder was clumped. I do not use oil or anything of the sort around my cases, so I'm not sure what happened. I was going in and out that day so the best I can figure is condensation.

Varget has laughed that kind of thing off.

I am concerned first with reliability, then accuracy, then metering precision.

I guess I don't know much about ball vs extruded in rifles.

I'm hearing a lot of responses about old vs new formulas, the new types not being as sensitive to adverse conditions.

I've posted this question on a few message boards, and I keep hearing about Varget (my current choice), Winchester 748, and Benchmark.

I am loading for 7.62x54R Russian and 7.92x57JS.

The latter is for use in an 1892 Gew88 Commission Rifle that has a 0.323" neck conversion but retains the 0.318" bore. Safe, but using 150 grain bullets with short driving bands. Current military loads are hard on the action and max pressure should be around 40,000psi; in other words, SAAMI or just a bit over, not the European standards.

The Mosin-Nagant can take all sorts of pressures with that massive safety lug, but I don't look to load to max at all. Even mild loads are more than a .30-30 and it's just not needed.

Looks like I may need the fundamentals of powder taught to me. Folks have always just suggested a powder and I've gone with it in pistol. I like BE for its simplicity. However, rifle powders are boggling the mind. Way too many of them!

Thanks!

Josh
 
I use BL-C(2) and it's a fine powder that meters as good as it gets. It was a favorite of benchrest shooters. Here is a copy paste from Hodgdon's website

A spherical powder that began as a military powder used in the 7.62 NATO, commonly known as the 308 Winchester. When it was first introduced to the handloader, benchrest shooters and other target shooters made it an instant success. BL-C(2) works extremely well in the 204 Ruger, 223 Remington, 17 Remington, 22 PPC and of course, the 308 Winchester, plus many more.
 
If you are one of those that use some of the older ball powders like BLC2 or Win760/H414 and the like, you'll find that using magnum primers will likely prevent squib-like and inconsistent ignition, especially in colder temperature climates.
As helotaxi mentioned, there are some good powders that work well, year around, and the powder manufacturers/distributors keep introducing the new and improved versions for us to try. It's hard to keep up.


NCsmitty
 
You are loading light. I have found that Ball process powders do not take well to reduced loads.

You are loading for old surplus rifles that probably would not benefit from minute precision in powder charging. I would load them with 4895 (H or IMR) which is a short cut extruded powder that meters well enough for military and hunting calibers and burns smoothly over a wide range from maximum to 60%.
 
2520 is also known as the "Camp Perry Powder" since it was what was used in competition loads at one point. I've had good accuracy results using it with heavy bullets in .223, .243 and .204 but I haven't used it in .308.
Click to expand...

They sold a heck of a lot of surplus 2520 at Camp Perry, and thus the name. I'm not sure if anyone shot it competitively though.
 
I tried hard to like 2520 because it meters so well.
Unfortunately it was demonstrably less accurate than extruded powders in two out of the three barrels tried.
So I got a PACT dispenser and let it weigh out Varget or Re-15 for me.
 
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