Spherical Powder Discovery

[Jaywalker]

I bought some H-380 today for my 6.5X55, the first time I've ever used spherical powder. I'd hesitate to say it was as good as sex, but after metering problems with extruded powder, it was a remarkable discovery! I haven't even shot it yet, and I've already decided that if it shoots anywhere near as good as it pours and measures, I'm never going back. After today, the sun shines a little brigher and the sky is just a bit more blue. I feel like singing...

Jaywalker

 

[Bill Adair]

Jay,

Exactly why I like Ramshot True Blue for most handgun calibers!

Nothing I've ever tried meters better, plus it fills my handgun cases very nicely.

People who have never metered extruded or large flake powders, probably wouldn't appreciate it as much.

Bill

 

[stans]

Same here, I started out with the traditional Bullseye and Unique for pistol cartridges, then I tried some AA#5, whole new world. I have used W-231, WSL (discontinued ), HP-38, AA#5, AA#7, AA#9, H-110 and W-296. All meter so well from my RCBS Uniflow. I still use Unique for my 44 Magnum reduced loads, but I am so tempted to try to switch to all spherical powder.

 

[Bill Adair]

Stans,

We have very similar powder experience, and I still have cans of Unique, Bullseye, and Red Dot that will probably never be finished.

Unique is my favorite powder, so I sincerely hope that Alliant can duplicate it's performance in a ball powder.

I chronographed a lot of .45 Colt Unique loads using graduated amounts, and the velocities produced were so linear, that I might as well have tried only the minimum and maximum loads, and plotted all the velocities in between! Would have saved me time, and given the same results.

Bill

 

[Clark]

Ball powder pros:
1) easy to meter
2) more power possible
3) shooting H110 smells good.

Ball powder cons:
1)Shot to shot variation in velocity not good for target competition.
2) Temperature variation not good for slow fire maximum hairy edge winter developed loads shot fast fire in summer.


What does it all mean?
Hunters, self defense, and the military like it.
Benchrest and high power competition don't.

 

[Grump]

Another pro for spherical (or Ball(tm) of Winchester or Olin...) powders:

High physical density, and energy density for double-base powders = you can get MORE by weight into your powder area.

Flame temperature is significantly lower for most variants = longer throat life!!!


The biggest con for me:
Temperature variations = larger velocity variations, as cited by Clark...especially in rifle cartridges. NO Hodgdon "extreme" powders are spherical, though they try by using shorter-cut granules.

Not really a con unless you're trying to avoid using two types of primers for each size: Often require magnum primers. I'm trying to get away from those in pistol calibers.

 

[Jaywalker]

Good info, particularly about temperature differences. Can I expect accuracy I achieve in the Summer to be there in the Winter? I don't much care if the velocity changes, if it changes evenly and I keep whatever accuracy I've devloped.

Jaywalker

 

[HogRider]

Exactly why I like Ramshot True Blue for most handgun calibers!

Bill,

I was looking for an alternative to Blue Dot, but haven't found a local place to buy True Blue yet. How does it fill a case compared to Blue Dot? How clean or dirty is it compared to Blue Dot? I also noticed that Blue Dot is extremely temperature sensitive. I have started making "Summer" and "Winter" loads. How is True Blue compared to that?

Thanks

 

[Bill Adair]

HogRider,

True Blue fills the smaller caliber cases enough that it's very difficult to get a double charge, without spilling powder. I've give you some exact figures, but we are in the process of packing for a moving.

In those monster .45 Colt cases, it fills the case enough that a double charge would be pretty hard to miss with a visual check.

You know, I never pay much attention to how clean a powder burns, because it all leaves soot to some degree. I would have to guess it is one of the cleaner burning powders I've used.

Can't help you on temperature stability either, as I'm a fair weather shooter, and seldom go when temperatures are below forty. I haven't noticed any radical velocity excursions in the moderate climate we have, but that may not apply elsewhere. You might call Western Powders at the number listed on the Ramshot web site, and ask about temperature stability. They sell most brands of powder, so they should not be biased in favor of Ramshot.

The Ramshot web site (www.ramshot.com) has a search function for locating dealers. My dealer was the first to get it in this area, but most of them carry it now. I wish they packaged it in larger containers, as I've gone through several one pound cans already.

You might ask your dealer to order some, as he can combine it with other hazmat items to keep the shipping cost down.

Bill

 

[Jaywalker]

Previously, I noted hopefully:

if it shoots anywhere near as good as it pours and measures

Well, it didn't. I had severe pressure problems and had to abandon shooting most of the loads I had ready.

Again, I was loading my 6.5X55 with H-380 behind 140 g bullets, mostly Hornady A-Max, but also some Speer HotCor. I got the load out of my Lyman's 47th, though admittedly, other 140 g bullets were specifically listed.

I loaded one lot of five at minimum, 41 g, just to test, and the others at 44 g, estimating it to yield about 2500 fps, well back of the 46 g max load. The test lot felt hotter than the expected 2325 fps, and the primers were a little flatter than I've been getting with RL 22, so I watched the next lot carefully, as it was seated closest to the lands. (All subsequent H-380 loads were at 44 g, with only the bullet and seating depth changing.) That lot felt very hot, with flat primers, so I skipped to much deeper seating so as to get more freebore. I also had some trouble opening the bolt.

I then switched to Speer lots - got a flat, cratered primer, and significant troubler opening the bolt. Tried one more that was seated deeper, got the same results, and gave it up.

The Lyman website listed 40.5 as a suggested load with 140 g bullets, I discovered when I got home.

On a good note, the test load (41 g) grouped five shots into 0.77 inches, so once I figure out the pressure issue, I think I have a candidate for a shooter. I guess I need to buckle and get a chronograph.

Jaywalker

 

[WESHOOT2]

girlie-boy inspiration

This thread thingie inspired me yes INSPIRED me to switch from Bullseye to AA2 Improved for a current 40 S&W / 180g project.
Match ammo for me own gun (USPSA Ltd 10, Minor, Witness).

There, I said it. This forum affects me..........

 

[Grump]

My experience with spherical powders and accuracy has been no changes in accuracy at temperatures between 40 and 110 degrees F. in .308, WW-748 gave 1 fps velocity change per degree of temperature change, checked at three temperatures (one of them twice). ES was generally between 50 and 80 fps IIRC, but it still shot great at 200-600 yards.

Haven't checked temperature effects with WW-296, but I'm trying to get away from that one anyway. Too much flash. Some, like WW-231, have very low flash.

 

[Jaywalker]

Grump,

How do you even notice the flash in Las Vegas?

Jaywalker

 

[Grump]

Indoor ranges.

Then there was the jackrabbit outside of town one night while I was driving around.

Trust me, you'd spot the flash if you had to light one of those 296 loads at night, even on Fremont Street! But there, you would not be blinded because it's already bright enough to see anything.

 

[Red_SC]

Don't give up on the H380. I'd have to check my brother's data sheet, but his 6.5X55 likes some H380 loads. I just loaded some .308 rounds with it, we'll have to see how they shoot.

 

[Jaywalker]

Well, the one safe lot was the 41 g H-380, and it shot into 0.77", so I'll do it again once I get the bullets out. BTW, I'm not looking forward to "inertia"-ing out the bullets in the new brass - those are really tight hold. I might just buy a collet-puller - at least that'll keep the powder off of the ear plug I left in the bottom to cushion the bullet.

Jaywalker

 

[whofan]

Jaywalker

Pulling bullets really sucks! However, sometimes you just gotta do it.

I had to pull several hundred .40 S&W loads several years back.

 

[Jaywalker]

Well, I didn't have several hundred to pull, but I also didn't have a die-based puller, either. Picture me sitting in front of the TV, goggles on, inertial hammer in my brawny arm, beating on a 2X4 on the rug. Some of the times I couldn't tell that the bullet had come free until the next backstroke dumped powder on my inner elbow.

I now have a Hornady die and collet for the next time.

Jaywalker

 

[tex_n_cal]

Ball powders are a hoot - the only problem is, some guns/calibers just will not shoot with them. In my .22-250 I found Varget was far better than anything else I tried, such as H380 and H414. In bigger rifle cartridges nothing seems to beat R15, R19, or R22.

 

[Wildalaska]

Whats your load with RL 22?

 

[tex_n_cal]

Reloader 22 I use in .25-06, .270, and .300 Win mag. My reloading notes are packed away at the moment, but I do recall 60 grains in the .270, with 130 gr bullets being good for the velocities Winchester actually claimed in the 1930's This is out of a Ruger #1B. Accuracy was excellent, 3 shots group under 1 MOA. This charge is Alliant's currently published max.

In the .300 mag (the real Win mag, not the short one). I will run 180 Nosler Partitions with 76 grains of R22 and Fed 215 primers, which chronos around 3100 fps out of another Ruger #1B(my favorite rifle). Accuracy is excellent. I've gone higher, but there's no reason to do so. This load is within AP's published max.

With 72 grains of R22 and 180gr CT Fail Safes, accuracy was mind-boggling, 3 shots commonly touched at 100 yards, velocity was about 2950 fps. This Ruger is a 200th year Liberty model, and has a very long throat, Your Mileage Will Vary!

R22 is the first thing I'd try in cases with similar bore size/capacity as the three mentioned.

 

[Jaywalker]

Wildalaska:

Whats your load with RL 22?

I like RL22 in 6.5X55. With 140 g A-Max, I've got five-shot groups between 0.45" and 1.61", directly attributable to seating depth, since I kept the powder charge at 45 g. That's probably about 2500 fps.

I just bought a Forster micrometer seating die to make some of the better groups more consistently repeatable. Once I figure out what the barrel is capable of, I'll move on to working up a couple of good hunting loads. These barrels Ruger makes now are really good.

Jaywalker

 

[Wildalaska]

Im real happyn with RL 22! getting .425 inch groups with it..

45 grain is too much in my rifgle though

WilddswedeAlaska