Spiral fluting?

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I know the supposed benefits of fluting a barrel; less weight, more surface area for cooling, etc. My question is simply is there some reason other than cosmetic to prefer spiral over straight flutes? I can't think of any. Just curious.
 
I know the supposed benefits of fluting a barrel; less weight, more surface area for cooling, etc. My question is simply is there some reason other than cosmetic to prefer spiral over straight flutes? I can't think of any. Just curious.

In theory spiral removes more weight and adds more surface area. Honestly I think it comes down to cosmetics and personal preference. I've got a couple fluted barrels and I prefer straight.

It’s more efficient because over a given lineal distance a spiral flute will measure slightly longer than a straight one, i.e., more surface area. How much longer? On a typical 24” barrel, a 16-1/2” straight flute, if spiraled, would measure about 17”. In other words, more surface area within a given length.

https://safariclub.org/flirting-wit...cient because over,area within a given length.

I've also had a couple bolts done and on those I prefer spiral.. again personal taste.

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It mostly cosmetic. Yes a spiral flute of the same size (cross section) as the straight flute will remove more material and produce more surface area but if you do the math we are talking about changes on the order of very low single digit percentage even for relatively fast twist flutes.
 
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Thanks. Sounds like there is some minimal gain in cooling area. I've never been a fan of spiral flutes, and it doesn't sound like any minimal benefits outweigh my aesthetic preference. I do like a spiral fluted bolt.
 
There can possibly be more surface area and volume removed in a spiral vs straight.

True if the spacing in between fluting is the same. I think the weight reduction and cooling is minimal. It is also said to make the barrel more rigid but I think that is also minimal considering the length and diameter of the barrels. To uneducated me I consider it mostly a "look" thing.
 
Pretty rifle! Carbon fiber stock, skeletonized bolt handle, fluted bolt, what does that beauty weigh?

With 20" fluted Bartlein2B profile in .260 Rem with 2.5-8x36 on a trued REM M7 for a little over 7lbs all up with sling and 5rds. I left the 2B with 1.5" shank, and probably should have taken it down to .5". It balances about perfect though in the Manner's EH8 stock.

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I met with my smith yesterday to get some measurements for another Manners stock that I'm ordering this weekend, with another 2B that arrived this week. The shank on this one will be .5" with a 24" length in .300WM to shave some weight. Biggest issue now is deciding between the EH6 and EH3. I went to Manners on Tuesday to try some stocks and I'm still stuck between these two.
 
With 20" fluted Bartlein2B profile in .260 Rem with 2.5-8x36 on a trued REM M7 for a little over 7lbs all up with sling and 5rds. I left the 2B with 1.5" shank, and probably should have taken it down to .5". It balances about perfect though in the Manner's EH8 stock.

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I met with my smith yesterday to get some measurements for another Manners stock that I'm ordering this weekend, with another 2B that arrived this week. The shank on this one will be .5" with a 24" length in .300WM to shave some weight. Biggest issue now is deciding between the EH6 and EH3. I went to Manners on Tuesday to try some stocks and I'm still stuck between these two.
Very nice, thanks for the info!
 
More surface area than straight flutes but you largely loose the other benefit of straight flutes which is improved stiffness to weight ratio. I don’t like them for that reason.

Imagine if you took a structural I beam and twisted it along it’s length. The force vector is no longer parallel to the plane of the beam.
 
More surface area than straight flutes but you largely loose the other benefit of straight flutes which is improved stiffness to weight ratio. I don’t like them for that reason.

Imagine if you took a structural I beam and twisted it along it’s length. The force vector is no longer parallel to the plane of the beam.

This is pretty apt, BUT…

For the same weight, a spiral fluted barrel remains to have greater stiffness than a round barrel of the same weight. A fluted barrel of the same weight would be smaller diameter, and quite likely as stiff.

We kinda also have to compare how these barrels are fluted - number of flutes, depth, width, barrel diameter, etc. For example, my Seekins Havak was originally spiral fluted with EXTREME fluting - very narrow “flats” between the flutes. A LOT of meat removed in that fluting. Alternatively, one of our Savage MkII’s which is spiral fluted has very shallow fluting with larger gaps between flutes (less flutes and/or narrower fluting) than most straight fluted barrels would have. The weight reduction and influence on stiffness varies considerably, almost visually discernible, when you compare those differences in “spiral fluting.”

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The thing is a straight fluted barrel does not have the same stiffness as you go around the barrel.

Imagine a barrel with a solid fin running at 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and 9 o'clock, (with 12 o'clock in line with the sights). The barrel will be stiffest in the planes of these solid fins and most flexible in the intermediate planes. A spiral fluted barrel will have better average stiffness in all radial planes, but lower stiffness when compared to the primary planes (12, 3, 6,and 9).

Also, the spiral fluted barrel will not have a constant stiffness as you go down the length of the barrel in any single plane.

This really does mean it will be "better", just that the way the barrel vibrates will be different
 
Not sure i would want that when using open sights or practical shooting. I think it might be confusing to your eyes. I guess if it was spiral, each track would have more volume, thus lighter then straight cut. I doubt very much there is a tangible benefit worthy of mention.
 
Random thought, the flutes should spiral at the same twits rate as the riflings. Not because it does anything useful but it would be neat to visualize the twist rate.
That would look really wild on an 8.6 BO. Would look like piece of all thread. Lol
 
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What did fins do on the back of cars?: they looked cool.


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Fins did not improve the aerodynamics, at least as far as we know, because no one put these vintage cars in a wind tunnel to measure their drag.

I feel about flutes the same way, they just look cool. I am sure performance claims for fluting are minuscule, but fluting is designed to maximize profitability for the barrel maker.

Fluting the barrel does increase stiffness if the barrels are the same weight. However, you end up with a larger diameter barrel, and you really don’t know if the increased stiffness does anything on target.

When shooters are regularly firing weapons with barrels of this diameter,

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maybe the increased stiffness makes a difference on target. Considering long range shooters are burning their barrels out from 1000 to 2000 rounds, is anyone going to bank roll extensive tests, shooting out multiple barrels, to prove the more expensive fluted barrels are better? Given all the variables in boring, reaming, chamber concentricity, and bullets (bullets are a huge contributor to inaccuracy, and a huge uncontrolled variable), how does anyone isolate fluting's contribution to anything?

I would be leery of fluting broach or button rifled barrels. A barrel maker told me removing material from the outside of a broach or button rifled barrel increases bore diameter. Cut rifling does not leave the same stresses in the barrel, so fluting a cut rifled barrel should do nothing.

The heat transfer argument. So what, who cares? Who is firing their match barrel at machine gun rates? Flutes in fact turned out to be expensive vestigial features on machine guns. Sure, in the non steady state heat transfer period to a steady state temperature, air is able to get closer to the bore in a fluted barrel, and the surface area was increased, but eventually with enough rounds the tube gets hot and stays hot. Machine gunners can tell us how many rounds it takes before a barrel is too hot to touch without mittens. I suspect it ain’t long. Heat conduction through metal is good, very good. Heat convection from metal to air is slow, very slow. And that is the bugger, the limitation in effective heat transfer is not surface area, but transferring that heat to churlish air molecules. Water cooling is better, and it takes longer for a water cooled barrel to reach white hot, but eventually even water cooling can not remove the heat out faster enough to prevent over heating.

The cost of fluting, the relative ineffectiveness of cooling and the frequent replacement period is why it is not cost effective to flute machine gun barrels.

Do flutes make a cooling difference in a 20 minute, 20 round record period? I doubt it makes a difference on target.

But they look cool, just like the fins on vintage vehicles.

Is it better to look good, than shoot good?
 

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Fluting is aesthetic.

Fluted barrels still whip, still vibrate, still distort with heat. I've never found any of the fluted barrel rifles to be more consistent, more precise, or wander less from cold bore zero than their unfluted counterparts of similar weight. Barrel and rifle build quality has much more bearing on these things.
 
The area increase with spiral fluting is ±1%--at significantly more cost. But, the "look" is very cool.
It's an elegant bit of machining if a person has a two-point machine combining mill and lathe.
And, of course, the ultimate end of that is progressive spiral fluting.
 
The area increase with spiral fluting is ±1%--at significantly more cost. But, the "look" is very cool.
It's an elegant bit of machining if a person has a two-point machine combining mill and lathe.
And, of course, the ultimate end of that is progressive spiral fluting.

You would not use a combination machine for that (or for anything if you have a choice in the matter. Just say no to combo machines!). Combination machine milling heads may swing away and may be articulated, but they do not traverse the lathe Z axis, so could not perform that operation, and the "beds" are far too small to set up a fixture for this.

To do spiral flutes manually, you would use a good sized (enough X axis travel) horizontal mill or knee mill with a convex radius cutter, and a ratioed gear or toothed belt drive to a dividing head or indexer. Straight fluting negates the need to drive your dividing head or spin indexer.

On a 4+ axis CNC machining center, turning center (lathe) with live tools or a millturn, probably use of a ball nose end mill with tapered feeds in and out of the flutes. I could flute on any of my 3 CNCs, but would probably choose the 5 axis Mazak Integrex millturn and use a proper radius cutter from the side rather than a ball nose end mill. Radius cutters will make prettier cuts, and that machine can rotate the B axis, angle the milling spindle with a radius cutter to exactly match the helix angle.
 
To do spiral flutes manually, you would use a good sized (enough X axis travel) horizontal mill or knee mill with a convex radius cutter, and a ratioed gear or toothed belt drive to a dividing head or indexer. Straight fluting negates the need to drive your dividing head or spin indexer.
You can do it with a rotary table or a dividing head and a vertical mill large enough to handle them.

If you have patience and time, same as cutting a cam path.

Although, these days slapping a CNC upgrade to an old Bridgeport isn't that big a deal.
 
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