Sports that attract new shooters.

[Japle]

Various shooting sports have been developed to attract new shooters, but then lost their way.

EXAMPLE: International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Assn.
IHMSA started off with just three types of centerfire guns, two of which were affordable out-of-the-box guns – Production and Standing Production – mostly dominated by inexpensive T/C Contenders, and Production Revolver where the Ruger SuperBlackhawk and Dan Wesson were popular. There were 4 big-bore classes and 4 .22 classes. Things were simple. If you wanted to compete, you bought a Contender and 3 barrels - .22, 10-inch .357 or 7TC-U and a Super-14 barrel in 7TC-U or 30/30 and a revolver and you were set.
Now, there are 8 Big-bore classes and 8 .22 classes. It’s more complicated and more expensive. It’s become an equipment race (exactly what the founders of the sport wanted to avoid) and the average shooter, who just doesn’t feel at home there any more, has quit. What used to be the fastest-growing shooting sport is now seldom seen.

EXAMPLE: IDPA
IDPA started off as a fun sport that made sense. “Defensive” meant something. “Failure to do right” applied to the match designers. But the last IDPA match I shot in was insane. “At the buzzer, the shooter will run to that shed, kick open the door and engage the targets!” What part of that is, “Defensive”? It became just another run-and-gun sport. Instead of shooting defensively, shooters go charging around, looking for supposedly armed targets to shoot. The spirit of the sport was lost. Divisions went from – you guessed it – 4 to 8!

Both sports went from simple sports where someone with a Contender or a Glock could feel at home to matches filled with super-tricked-out custom guns that the average guy can’t afford and smaller clubs can’t afford to run.

Steel Challenge still makes sense. Anyone with a full-size 9mm and a cheap Kydex holster can compete and have fun. That .45 1911 or your 22/45 will do just fine.
I’d like to see a similar sport using paper plates stapled to wooden backers and restricted to over-the-counter-only guns.

Anyway, I know there’s no way that IHMSA and IDPA will ever return to their roots.

It’s a shame, but we’ll find a way to move on and appeal to those millions of gun owners who might like to compete, but are afraid they won’t fit in.

 

[Hasaf]

I understand. My father was very into several different target sports. I have never gotten into any. For me, the; cost, distance to matches, insanely complex rules systems, and just so many other reasons have kept me away. The thing I notice is that while I know quite a few casual shooters, none of them are into any of the shooting sports either. I am not saying that there are not people in these sports, clearly there are. They just don't seem to be where I am.

One thing that would keep the cost down would be a standing rule that after the match, the competitors would willingly sell their gun, used in the event, for some fixed amount. I am not saying it is a great idea, just one that came to me as I was sitting here.

Another would be to take a page from several Asian countries and have mirrors to the shooting sports with airsoft, such as IPSC Action Air. Why? because a lot of potential sportsmen are in areas where venues are limited or expensive. It also provides a way of bringing kids into the sports. I am not trying to be pandering here, but why not an event that plays out the way it is mapped in a popular video game?

The gun community, with its nose in the air, is losing out on a lot of goodwill and potential sportsmen.

I am not saying these are the only ideas about how to increase participation in shooting sports; however, there may be a need to get creative in order to ensure that our passion outlives us.

As a teacher, I would love to have a CMP Youth Air programme. However, there concerns:

• The first is student behaviour, I teach at a "problematic" school. This was raised as a major area of concern when an air rifle league was discussed a few years ago.
  • Me, I have a simple solution, not the "No F's" that the school sports league requires. I would want no D's or F's and a minimum B average. That pretty much weeds out all of the "behavioural-challenged" students
• The next issue is a much bigger problem, CMP air turns into a money race very quickly.
  • Because it is within a set of previously set rules, I have no real solution for this one.

Note, the 4H shooting sports programmes can be a lot less expensive.

However, all of this goes back to, how can we make these sports attractive. to youth. That needs to address parent fears, cost, and convenience of venues.

Myself, I had a strong interest in Field Target a few years back, but ran into the "there is no one near me to shoot with," problem.

. . . possibly that is a way that the many gun boards can take part in being part of the solution. . .

Instead of each board having a "regional" board of their own, to work together to create a single regional shooting sports board that all linked to. . . Yes, I can see a lot of egos getting in the way, also the issue of advertising concerns of not wanting to send people to another site. But a single board, broken down by region and then by sub-sport, no discussion other than, "let's get together and shoot," any other discussion limited to, "let's take this back to xyz forum and discuss this there" . . . Even though I can think of so many reasons that it would not work, I think it would be great for the sport.

 

[.308 Norma]

It’s become an equipment race (exactly what the founders of the sport wanted to avoid)

Yep, that's one of the reasons my wife and I quit IHMSA - or at least one of the "excuses" we used. The truth is though, my wife and I got so wrapped up in it that shooting silhouettes became a job, rather than fun. We were going to a match somewhere almost every other weekend, and the closest match to where we live was 70 some miles away.
We were loading practice and match ammo almost every night after work, and shooting it up in practice (if we didn't have a match to go to) almost every weekend. And we were always wearing out targets - I cut the "silhouettes" out of tarpaper and stapled them to the plywood stands I'd built - which got shot to pieces after a couple of months.
At any rate, yeah, you're right - IHMSA did become an equipment race. The two 10.5" Ruger Super Silhouette 44 Mag revolvers my wife used, and the 14" Remington XP-100 7mm IHMSA I used are evidence of that. I mean, of what practical use would a 10.5" revolver, or a 14" handheld rifle ever have to most people?

 

[.308 Norma]

Various shooting sports have been developed to attract new shooters

I'm not so sure about that, man. I think I understand what you're saying, but I just can't think of any shooting sports that were developed solely to "attract new shooters."
IHMSA (the one my wife and I took up) was maybe a little bit that way, but neither my wife nor I could hardly have been considered to be "new shooters" when we took it up. We thought about taking up Cowboy Action Shooting for a while too - after we quit the IHMSA game. But then we remembered what we were like when we were shooting IHMSA - I can't think of a word that describes how fiercely competitive we had allowed ourselves to become.
Around here, Mountain Man Rendezvous' and black powder muzzle loader shooting was all the rage for a while. And I don't think it was developed to attract new shooters either.
I don't think BPCR competition was either. I think BPCR became popular after "Quigley Down Under" came out, and it still has a few enthusiasts. I doubt many of them are "new shooters" though.

 

[luzyfuerza]

The 4H shooting sports program IS designed to attract and teach new shooters. The kids have lots of fun. Us adults, too.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

One thing that would keep the cost down would be a standing rule that after the match, the competitors would willingly sell their gun, used in the event, for some fixed amount. I am not saying it is a great idea, just one that came to me as I was sitting here.

How would that keep costs down?
How would having to sell a 1100 dollar CZ shadow 2 every month for a loss help keep costs down? Who gonna buy all these guns?

 

[Hasaf]

How would that keep costs down?
How would having to sell a 1100 dollar CZ shadow 2 every month for a loss help keep costs down? Who gonna buy all these guns?

Ok, so you say $1,100, that is a good number. It is going to keep the $3,500 pieces out of the game. The second question, no one needs to buy them. Only to have the option.

The only way I could see a person "having to sell an $1,100 CZ shadow 2 every month" unless they were sending those guns to a smith for another $1K of work each month. Then someone is going to say "Hey! I want that gun." I need to add to this paragraph, having just checked the price of the CZ shadow 2 on gun broker, you just might need to replace it every month. . . better bring a CZ P10 instead.

If the limit is, as you say $1,100, and having just checked the price of the CZ shadow 2 on Gunbroker, it is unlikely that I would show up with that pistol, for the competition, at all, knowing that I just might leave with $1,100, but no gun when the CZ shadow 2 sells for more than that. Instead I just might show up with a gun that I know sells for less than $1,100.

. . . that is how a fixed sell-price keeps "race gun" prices under a fixed limit.

 

[patmccoy]

It’s a shame, but we’ll find a way to move on and appeal to those millions of gun owners who might like to compete, but are afraid they won’t fit in.

VERY few shooters "might like to compete" or they would be doing so. Most shooters do not have to self image to "shoot THEIR best" while others shoot better (and Win), and still compete. Those shooters want to WIN (or be among the top placers) and have respect of other shooters WITHOUT doing the training required.

Occasionally we get a new shooter or two who understand that their biggest competitor is themself, and the real fun in shooting is bettering your own past performance with what ever equipment you have. Or, as one ages, keeping up close to what you used to be able to do with your age related challenges.

 

[Hasaf]

VERY few shooters "might like to compete" or they would be doing so. Most shooters do not have to self image to "shoot THEIR best" while others shoot better (and Win), and still compete. Those shooters want to WIN (or be among the top placers) and have respect of other shooters WITHOUT doing the training required.

I don't know that is true. When our lodge hosts a bullseye match, we get a lot of people showing up. Most have no expectation of winning. It is more about making a good social event.

 

[Outlaw75]

Isn't this what GSSF is supposed to be about? Granted, you're only allowed to use stock Glock products, but it is more of a production gun type organization than others.

 

[hoardingthemanual]

The tactical terry’s have overrun the show. Even a non gun owning friend, I showed a him a bolt action and he said “oh a sniper rifle.” Guns can always be used for war but lately it seems that’s all people want to use them for.

 

[Armored farmer]

Several high schools in our area have trapshooting teams.

 

[Bill_in_TR]

What keeps a lot of shooters, both new and old out of a lot of shooting sports is cost. There is not a lot of accommodation for box stock factory guns that is strictly enforced with a reasonable cost limit. Every time something new starts out with that in mind it quickly becomes an equipment race. Whenever competition is involved people will do whatever they can to gain an equipment advantage. Many people just want to be able to take their factory gun out of the safe and at least be competitive.

And then there is the likes of the IDPA example above. It has turned into an athletic event as much as a "defensive" pistol event. Course design has become way more complicated than purely defensive scenarios. And rules get complicated enough to require a Supreme Court justice to analyze them.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

Ok, so you say $1,100, that is a good number. It is going to keep the $3,500 pieces out of the game. The second question, no one needs to buy them. Only to have the option.

The only way I could see a person "having to sell an $1,100 CZ shadow 2 every month" unless they were sending those guns to a smith for another $1K of work each month. Then someone is going to say "Hey! I want that gun." I need to add to this paragraph, having just checked the price of the CZ shadow 2 on gun broker, you just might need to replace it every month. . . better bring a CZ P10 instead.

If the limit is, as you say $1,100, and having just checked the price of the CZ shadow 2 on Gunbroker, it is unlikely that I would show up with that pistol, for the competition, at all, knowing that I just might leave with $1,100, but no gun when the CZ shadow 2 sells for more than that. Instead I just might show up with a gun that I know sells for less than $1,100.

. . . that is how a fixed sell-price keeps "race gun" prices under a fixed limit.

Might as well have the range/club/event buy a bunch of glock 19 and issue them out.
In that case you won't need to worry about race guns cause people simply won't be showing up.

 

[alfsauve]

I don't think the number of divisions is a problem. Steel Challenge has 13 but that allows people to shoot with most any gun. Pick the division that matches the equipment you have. Of course the rules and course of fire are very simple compared to the other action sports.

There is a new action game called PCSL. They're attempting to keep the rules straight forward and simple. Most importantly clubs are not required to affiliate or pay dues which removes a barrier for local clubs to try this game out. My local club did sample version for our year end match. No one wondered about equipment disparity. We all just had fun figuring out the ammo management aspect of using K-Zone targets. (1 K-zone hit = 2 Alphas)

 

[Japle]

What attracts new shooters is word-of-mouth.
When I was an IHMSA State Director, the thing that brought the most new shooters into the sport was friends telling friends how much fun it was.
Wives shot with husbands (and often beat them) and people showed up with friends and neighbors and co-workers. They were attracted by the game's simplicity and the way they could compete with guns they already owned.
I shot in the 1st handgun metallic silhouette match in Tucson in 1975. One of the positive things we discussed at that match was the fact that it was impossible to shoot a perfect score, so there wouldn't be long shootoffs.
Well, that was almost true, if you considered the guns that were available at the time. Contenders didn't lock up tight and would shoot 200 meter groups that were 3" wide and 2' high. M29s shot loose. Ruger SAs turned out to be accurate enough, once we figured out reclining positions. After we designed good target stands, that made a big difference. T/C figured out how to get their guns to lock up tight. The guns got way better and techniques improved.
Just when things were going great, it was decided that scopes should be allowed. That required smaller targets which required more range space and more targets and target stands. It took longer to reset targets. Many of the better shooters could already put 5 shots on a soda can at 200 meters using open sights. Guns got more complicated and more expensive. The average Production shooter looked around and felt out of place. Shootoffs in the scoped Unlimited classes took forever.
IHMSA became just another specialized equipment race.
I was heavy into Steel Challenge for years and still love it, but personal issues keep me from competing. It's the best average-joe shooting sport going right now.

 

[Ed]

Soccer. Every time that dumb sport is on I want to go shoot something. Hockey is the same way to me. Those sports attract me to shooting.

 

[DustyGmt]

All of those match associations and shooting disciplines appeal to me and I would guess that in my locale, any one of em could be popular. Problem is nothing like that really exists around me to my knowledge, at least not in the southern part of the state. Trap clubs and stuff like that, but no IDPA or pistol/rifle matches.

What's the best way to go about establishing or organizing IHMSA/IDPA/IPSC events in your area? I would definitely like to explore the possibility, what would be the first step?

 

[Hasaf]

This thread did prompt to use part of this day off to write a letter for the Grand Lodge on this topic. I haven't sent it any, any thoughts?

 

[GEM]

One important point is to be welcoming. In the gamer oriented events, some of the high end shooters are out right rude and dismissive of new folks. They are seen as an annoyance to the 'game'. I've seen both with high level folks being just wonderful for new folks and some being total rude butts.

It's also been commented on that the track meet aspect of USPSA and now creeping into IDPA is not conducive to older folks or some women. Also, for the latter, many venues have vile bathroom facilities.

 

[doubleh]

The 4H shooting sports program IS designed to attract and teach new shooters. The kids have lots of fun. Us adults, too.

I agree. I have two great grand daughters that are members. The oldest can be in the program this year. She has already talked to the instructor about equipment needed. Ordinary, reasonably priced, is all you need. He also told her she could use his son's rifle, pistol, and bow as he had completed the course so there was no need for her to buy anything. Even the ammo is mostly a donation from various local companies. Between her grandfather and I she wouldn't have had a problem but why not use what was offered.

 

[Mal H]

I wish the History Channel would bring back "Top Shot". It had a very positive vibe concerning the shooting sports. I have no stats on it, but I'll bet it won a bunch of folks over from the dark side of guns.

 

[Justin]

Various shooting sports have been developed to attract new shooters, but then lost their way.

EXAMPLE: International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Assn.
IHMSA started off with just three types of centerfire guns, two of which were affordable out-of-the-box guns – Production and Standing Production – mostly dominated by inexpensive T/C Contenders, and Production Revolver where the Ruger SuperBlackhawk and Dan Wesson were popular. There were 4 big-bore classes and 4 .22 classes. Things were simple. If you wanted to compete, you bought a Contender and 3 barrels - .22, 10-inch .357 or 7TC-U and a Super-14 barrel in 7TC-U or 30/30 and a revolver and you were set.
Now, there are 8 Big-bore classes and 8 .22 classes. It’s more complicated and more expensive. It’s become an equipment race (exactly what the founders of the sport wanted to avoid) and the average shooter, who just doesn’t feel at home there any more, has quit. What used to be the fastest-growing shooting sport is now seldom seen.

EXAMPLE: IDPA
IDPA started off as a fun sport that made sense. “Defensive” meant something. “Failure to do right” applied to the match designers. But the last IDPA match I shot in was insane. “At the buzzer, the shooter will run to that shed, kick open the door and engage the targets!” What part of that is, “Defensive”? It became just another run-and-gun sport. Instead of shooting defensively, shooters go charging around, looking for supposedly armed targets to shoot. The spirit of the sport was lost. Divisions went from – you guessed it – 4 to 8!

Both sports went from simple sports where someone with a Contender or a Glock could feel at home to matches filled with super-tricked-out custom guns that the average guy can’t afford and smaller clubs can’t afford to run.

Steel Challenge still makes sense. Anyone with a full-size 9mm and a cheap Kydex holster can compete and have fun. That .45 1911 or your 22/45 will do just fine.
I’d like to see a similar sport using paper plates stapled to wooden backers and restricted to over-the-counter-only guns.

Anyway, I know there’s no way that IHMSA and IDPA will ever return to their roots.

It’s a shame, but we’ll find a way to move on and appeal to those millions of gun owners who might like to compete, but are afraid they won’t fit in.

I don't know. I think your post is really trying to tie the lack of participation in the shooting sports to things that ultimately don't matter for someone who's a new shooter. The biggest impediments that I've seen to new shooters getting into a sport boil down to resource allocation: primarily time, cost, and ego. Most shooting matches are going to take the majority of a Saturday/Sunday, something that can be a big ask for people who may have other things going on, including taking care of kiddos, going to church, working on the yard or whatever. The next resource is cost. To shoot a typical USPSA/IDPA match, you're probably going to fire around 150-200 rounds of ammunition, which is going to be about $50-75 cost. This cost makes it hard for a lot of younger people to get into these sports because they may not have that level of disposable income.

But the biggest impediment for most people is ego. Everyone wants to believe that they're a good shooter, but it's one thing to believe that, and something else entirely to be willing to put yourself in a position where you are probably going to find out that there are people who are much better than you, or where you may run into issues with accidentally breaking the rules and getting chastised for it.

These are issues that are completely separate from the ones you bring up regarding a sport having equipment divisions or having wandered away from it's original intent. I can't speak to the issues with Handgun Silhouette, since I've never participated in that sport, and can't speak with any authority on it, but it would seem to me that the addition of new divisions is fine, and in fact something that's good for new shooters if it means that there's a division that a new guy can participate in with what he's brought.

Same goes for IDPA. I haven't shot IDPA in many years, but looking at the divisions, it seems like IDPA has made a deliberate attempt to widen the sport to accommodate more new shooters by incorporating divisions for Compact Carry (where anyone with a basic Glock 19-style pistol can play), Carry Optics, Backup Gun, and even Pistol Caliber Carbines. So far as I can tell, between these new divisions and the already existing ones, there's a place for just about anyone to play. As for IDPA getting away from it's defensive roots, it would seem that the BUG and Compact Carry divisions are deliberately geared towards those roots. As to your criticism of stage designs not being realistic, back when I was shooting IDPA in the late 90s-early 2000s, the stages were basically what you described, and I fail to see how that's a violation of the intention of the sport. Furthermore, I don't see how you could have "realistic" stages for IDPA and still have a fun sport. If you want to mimic reality as closely as possible, every stage would basically consist of shooting one or two targets while backing up and pretending to call the cops. That doesn't sound fun at all.

The biggest thing that Match Directors can do to attract new shooters are to advertise their matches, either online or through word of mouth, and to have specific match staff who are willing and able to help new shooters to understand the basic rules and safety procedures of the sport, and be willing to answer questions and offer support.

 

[Justin]

One important point is to be welcoming. In the gamer oriented events, some of the high end shooters are out right rude and dismissive of new folks. They are seen as an annoyance to the 'game'. I've seen both with high level folks being just wonderful for new folks and some being total rude butts.

I've seen the best and worst of high level shooters. There are some who love the sport and want others to love it as much as they do, and are willing to help other shooters, and some that have a bad attitude. Thankfully I've seen more of the former.

Where it can be bad is if the match staff are rude or dismissive. One of the last IDPA matches I shot, I was using a pistol that was having mechanical issues with the slide randomly locking open prematurely. The RSO dinged me for dumping partially loaded magazines on the ground, instead of retaining them per IDPA rules. When I explained the issue, and that I assumed the magazines were empty because the slide locked open, he threatened to DQ me for having a "mechanically unsafe gun."

I was later able to sort out the issue with that gun and get it working again, but I never bothered to shoot another IDPA match at that range simply because the RSO had been such an abject jerk about it.

 

[Japle]

Justin,

I agree that spending what amounts to a whole day and a significant amount of money at a match can be a problem.
When I did that during my IHMSA and Steel Challenge days, my wife complained.

These days, I shoot in a once-a-week pistol league. There are two sessions, one at 6:20PM and one at 7:00. They’re 30 round matches and take 30-35 minutes to shoot. My team shoots Thursday nights and another league shoots Tuesday nights. We pay the range $40 each four times a year to supply targets and run the matches, so they make $5,000+ per year. The matches are quick and cheap and we have a wide variety of shooters. Some shoot Glocks or 686s and some of us have more tricked-out equipment. Open sights only and no more than 6” barrels. I usually shoot my S&W 327 5”.

As far as ego goes, about a third of the shooters are pretty terrible shots and they know it. No one gives them grief about it. Six people shoot on each team and only the top four scores are counted, so if a couple of guys of gals struggle to stay on the paper, it’s no problem. We shoot for fun a bragging rights, not trophies and titles. Most of us hit the pizza place afterwards and solve the world’s problems.

In the early days, silhouette and Steel Challenge and IDPA were pretty laid-back, but from what I’ve seen, that spirit got lost somewhere.

Yeah, I’m an old guy, bitching about how things have gone down hill from the old days.