Springfield Trapdoor 1873 repro questions

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I do Cowboy Action shooting and was thinking of getting a reproduction 1873 Springfield Trapdoor Carbine 45-70 to use in some competitions, mostly becasue think it looks neat and has a lot of history behind it (think Custer).

Mostly it will be shot at 50 and 100 yards, can anyone tell me could I use it in a silouette match at 300 yards?
I realize a 45-70 in a "Quigley" or Long Range Hunter would be better and I may get one at some point, but I like the looks of this gun and am not worried about being compedititive just about having fun.

WIll it reach that far?

 

[rcmodel]

Sure it will reach that far.

It will also bust your chops while doing it!

In fact the U.S. Military had two 45-70 loads.
A .45-70-405 load with 70 gr of FG black powder/405 gr round nose bullet for the rifle.
And a lighter .45-55-405 load, with only 55 grains of powder, for the carbine.

They just kicked too hard with the full power load for even those tough old calvarymen.

rc

 

[Maverick223]

I don't know much about Trapdoor reproduction quality, reliability, or accuracy, but the .45-70Govt. is a pretty efficient cartridge so the reduced bbl length (which isn't exactly short) won't hurt you much. As long as you choose a good maker, and don't have unrealistic expectations I think it'll do fine.

 

[Jim Watson]

Sure, you can use it in a silhouette match at 300 yards.
You will be limited by sight design and sight radius, but you can USE it. The bullets will definitely get there.

My last silhouette match, there was a guy shooting an original Sharps Conversion .50-70 at the 300 metre pigs during the sight-in period. He didn't hit much, but he had fun. (Then got out his real match gun to shoot for score.)

 

[dprice3844444]

usually they are calibrated for the 45/70 405 gr loads

 

[SaxonPig]

The Trapdoor is indeed a very cool rifle and great fun to own. But it's not so much fun to shoot. I have the short carbine model and with anything even approaching full loads it kicks the bejeezus out of me.

I have played with some lead 250 grain slugs sized .455 for revolvers loaded to around 1,200 FPS and these are nice to plink with but lack match accuracy.

Shooting 300 yards with a 45/70 will be like shooting field artillery due to the rainbow like trajectory. You will need a forward observer, for sure. You will also need full power loads to shoot that far with authority on the heavy steel targets. Shooting heavy loads and trying to score at 300 yards doesn't sound like fun to me. Hell, I can't even SEE 300 yards. I suspect most shooters would be stymied by a 300 yard shot with open sights.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The .45-55 load lasted only a short while -- for most of its service life, the .45-70 was standard issue to both Infantry and Cavalry. In fact, in the '80s the Army went to a 500 grain bullet without reducing the powder charge, and that kicked even harder.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Well Saxon, I've done it with a Trap Carb and to be honest, seeing the target at 300yds wasn't that difficult. It was seeing the target after the first round with nearly detached retinas that was a little rough

That Carb will definitely knock the living hell out of you with the loads needed to reach out accurately to 300yds.

 

[Cosmoline]

I'm having a blast with black powder loads in a .50-70 rolling block, so you might try those to help keep recoil down. With smokeless the .45-70 can quickly become a brutal round on both ends, and likely exceed the pressure margins of your trapdoor anyway. Plus I think there's something different about black powder recoil, though that may be psychological.

Also keep in mind that if you have the right sights and the right bullets, you don't need speed to reach far away targets.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Yes Cosmoline, Black powder does indeed have a different feel. It has a longer "push" than that of a smokeless charge.

 

[JohnM]

Many many years ago an old long gone friend of mine had an original trap door.
At that time you could go down to the hardware and buy black powder shells for 45-70.
We used to have a blast shooting that thing out behind his house.
Lobbing those big old lead slugs in high arcs towards a distant target

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

The Uberti replica looks nice.

I was looking at the load data and for Trail Boss for a 405 gr bullet it is 12-13 grains, for a 300 it is 14-16

It may not get 300 yards unless I get a forward observer, but 99% of the time I would be using it at 50 yards in the Cowboy Shoot and a Military shoot at my home club.

 

[Cosmoline]

TB is fun but I'm finding that real black, loaded properly, gives more bang for the buck. There are a few differences in loading but once you get the hang of it it's hard to go back to smokeless. They used to nail targets at TWO MILES with the .45-70 out of a trapdoor loaded with black powder. So don't let anyone tell you you need smokeless to make a BPCR into a long range weapon.

http://usarmorment.com/pdf/45-70.pdf

 

[Maverick223]

You're going to need a lot of elevation for that load, Ben. No experience with such loads (I prefer to use loads hot enough to disassemble a '73 Trapdoor), but if I were to use Trailboss, I would probably lean towards the lighter bullets, as it should retain a might bit flatter trajectory. That said, I like Cosmoline's suggestion, for your stated purpose...just DON'T attempt light loads using BP unless you know what you're doing (filler is a prerequisite), it'll flat deconstruct a rifle in short order! BP is easy on the shoulder anyway, so fill 'er up and smoke out the neighbors!