Squib Fix? (Probably a bad idea)

[WrongHanded]

This is more theoretical than a practical solution. But I wondered about it a few days ago and a recent squib thread reminded me.

Scenario:

You're out "in the field" (use your imagination) and get a squib that lodges in the barrel. Or alternatively you jam your rifle barrel down into mud and don't have a rod to clean it out.

Potential Fix(?):

Could you carefully pull a bullet from a cartridge so that you don't spill the powder (maybe with a multi tool) and turn the rifle up to insert the projectileless cartridge into the action (without spilling powder), then fire the gun and dislodge whatever was blocking it?

My thought here is that there should be enough pressure to push the bullet out (it's just sitting down the barrel a ways). And probably enough pressure to push out mud. But probably not the same peak pressure the cartridge would usually have, due to the addition volume of the barrel between the case and the obstruction.

I know it's a risky proposition, and generally a bad idea. But do you think it would work, or not?

 

[twarr1]

Let us know if you try it. If you don’t get back to us we’ll know.

 

[PapaG]

It is a great way to blow up a muzzle loader but don't know what would happen to a cartridge gun. I, personally, would never try it.

 

[WrongHanded]

Yeah, I'm not going to be trying it (unless things go really really wrong somehow). Just curious about the internal ballistics.

 

[mdi]

IIRC; this method of "clearing" a barrel results in a "ringed" barrel. A bulge where the base of the bullet was, and if not a Kaboom, a ruined barrel.

FWIW; my "range bag" contents include a "range rod" and if rifle shooting a cleaning rod. It's been a long time since I had a squib, but I have loaned the rod to an unfortunate shooter at the range...

 

[Seedy Character]

I have taken a length of barbed wire and cleaned my barrel.

It is very unsettling, pushing that rough, rusty wire through the barrel, but it done the job.

I, now, have a cleaning rod in my kit. It has been used. By myself and others.

Firing a blank cartridge, with any type of barrel obstruction, is a recipe for disaster. A destroyed barrel, at the least.

 

[kcofohio]

Am I missing something? My thought is now your case capacity is the cartridge case and the barrel. Wouldn't the pressure be exceedingly low?

 

[kcofohio]

I have taken a length of barbed wire and cleaned my barrel.

It is very unsettling, pushing that rough, rusty wire through the barrel, but it done the job.

I, now, have a cleaning rod in my kit. It has been used. By myself and others.

Firing a blank cartridge, with any type of barrel obstruction, is a recipe for disaster. A destroyed barrel, at the least.

I can see that a blank cartridge would have pressure, since it is blocked at the case mouth. But the OP is talking about an open mouth case. Wouldn't that be much different?

 

[CQB45ACP]

Let us know if you try it. If you don’t get back to us we’ll know.

Don’t know about rifles but I carry a brass squib rod for my pistols

 

[AJC1]

I would absolutely never use a propellant of any kind to clear a blocked barrel. Mechanical means of any kind is the solution.

 

[barnfrog]

I ain't tryin' it. No way, no how.

 

[Seedy Character]

I can see that a blank cartridge would have pressure, since it is blocked at the case mouth. But the OP is talking about an open mouth case. Wouldn't that be much different?

Very little difference, actually.

 

[WrongHanded]

Am I missing something? My thought is now your case capacity is the cartridge case and the barrel. Wouldn't the pressure be exceedingly low?

That could well be the case. I actually hadn't consider the effects of the huge difference in "case" volume could make.

If you burn a given amount of powder within a closed chamber or vessel of a given volume, assuming a full burn, you should be left with a specific pressure. Providing that the space does not expand, and no gas can leak out.

Let's take a bolt action rifle with a squib 12" from the bolt face. What do we think will happen here with a complete powder burn?

Will a correctly sized bullet, that has already been shaped to the form of the barrel, plug the barrel sufficiently that the pressure cannot escape and the volume of space is not increased? If that's what happens, I can't see there would be enough pressure to damage the chamber, barrel, or action.

Or would we experience little enough pressure from this situation, that the pressure would bleed off through the primer pocket? As the primer seating is unlikely to be completely air tight, yet it and the primer strong enough to hold the much higher pressure of a correctly functioning cartridge.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Let us know if you try it. If you don’t get back to us we’ll know.

A real humanitarian.

Unfortunately the problem is smokeless (nitro) NEEDS a good bit of pressure to burn effectively. If the obstruction is right at the muzzle crown, you're SOL. Now, maybe if it's sitting in the throat or just into the lands... maybe. But really the best solution is to carry a collapsible rod with you in the field. It's a normal part of a field pack but I admit when I'm just out walking all I have is a Bianchi flap holster and plastic rod so, maybe I'm being a bit hypocritical.

Try it with a spitball. Nothing really "bad" can happen.

 

[TimRB]

It could work, but I hesitate to say that it would work. I know that it's been done. But the two scenarios described in the OP are vastly different. A bullet stuck in the barrel is a much more serious problem than a mud-clogged barrel. The bullet is going to require a substantial rod (brass rod?) and probably a hammer, whereas the mud can most likely be cleaned out in the field with a stick and a little water--maybe a patch or two to get any grit out. In any event, I'd be afraid to try it. Maybe I'm too chicken, but so be it.

Tim

 

[Hondo 60]

I know it's a risky proposition, and generally a bad idea. But do you think it would work, or not?

Yes, it's a horrible idea.
Ya, it'd probably work, but not ery well.
You wouldn't have the neck tension to PROPERLY send a bullet down range.
Please, please, please don't ever do this.
Your rifle, limbs, eyes etc just ain't worth the danger.

Please, my friends, stay safe.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

LOn the other hand, I think you just put your finger on why it’s a good idea to carry a capable revolver when hunting with a rifle.

 

[FROGO207]

Well I have done it numerous times with no ill efects. It will not work with a revolver most times due to the cylinder gap though. For a rifle or pistol use a standard load put a good wad of paper in the neck to hold the propellant in place and fire at a target or into a test barrel full of sand. It will push out a single bullet most times. You ring a barrel when you fire a second bullet into the back of a stuck one.
Doing this with mud on the otherhand I have not done nor would I do it. You should have a knife when hunting and finding a long thin sapling, then doing a bit of whittling should be no problem to remove mud or dirt with.

 

[Rule3]

LOn the other hand, I think you just put your finger on why it’s a good idea to carry a capable revolver when hunting with a rifle.

Ya, you use the revolver to shoot the obstruction out of the rifle!

 

[WrongHanded]

Well I have done it numerous times with no ill efects. It will not work with a revolver most times due to the cylinder gap though. For a rifle or pistol use a standard load put a good wad of paper in the neck to hold the propellant in place and fire at a target or into a test barrel full of sand. It will push out a single bullet most times. You ring a barrel when you fire a second bullet into the back of a stuck one.
Doing this with mud on the otherhand I have not done nor would I do it. You should have a knife when hunting and finding a long thin sapling, then doing a bit of whittling should be no problem to remove mud or dirt with.

Very interesting to hear that you've actually done it.

Question, why would you not do it with mud? The potentially higher mass, or some other reason?

 

[FROGO207]

Exactly! Not sure how much mud the blockage would weigh and what pressure it would take to move it when it can easily be reamed out of the barrel. The bullet has a specific weight and you are going to use a similar but weaker pressure to move it along. A couple times it took two tries to move a bullet out of a rifle barrel though.

 

[WrongHanded]

@FROGO207 thanks for weighing in with some real world experience to what I thought would only ever be a hypothetical scenario.

 

[FROGO207]

I think that Dogtown Tom has also done this and mentioned it on the reloading forum as well. I have loaded sized and primed brass with about 14 grains of Red Dot for rifle bullet removal and it worked for me. One needs to be cautioned that this may be dangerous and the High Road is not responsible in any way if you try this and end up with bad results as it may NOT work safely for you.

 

[gwpercle]

The "FIX" is to carry a rod that breaks down into enough small sections that you can carry it in your pocket .
For 30 cal we would get from Army/Navy Surplus store the cleaning kit that went into butt stock trap of M-1(30-06) or M-14 (308 ) rifles and slip in pocket . Good for our 30 cal rifles ... trying to use a section of tree limb or bamboo or shooting the obstruction out is a Do Not Do ... Big Time No-No !
I'm sure you can buy a commerical rod that breaks down into pocket sized sections ... although the old military steel rods were hell for stout and worked well .
Gary

 

[WrongHanded]

The "FIX" is to carry a rod that breaks down into enough small sections that you can carry it in your pocket .
For 30 cal we would get from Army/Navy Surplus store the cleaning kit that went into butt stock trap of M-1(30-06) or M-14 (308 ) rifles and slip in pocket . Good for our 30 cal rifles ... trying to use a section of tree limb or bamboo or shooting the obstruction out is a Do Not Do ... Big Time No-No !
I'm sure you can buy a commerical rod that breaks down into pocket sized sections ... although the old military steel rods were hell for stout and worked well .
Gary

I actually already have such a rod, in a field cleaning kit. That does nothing to alleviate natural curiosity though.