Staccato 2011s for Law Enforcement Use

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here me out. Not all cops are trained the same and not all departments are created the same.

1911’s is an experts gun. Light and unforgiving trigger, and the engaging and re-engaging of safety, then the grip. Now with a point and shoot guns with safety built in! everyone is good to go. I would rather every have a “ Glock” then everyone with a Experts gun.

Here in Seattle and same with larger PD’s, the 2020 scumbag riots, they lost a a good chuck of officers. Crime has Skyrocketed and they are hiring anybody with an interest in being a cop. Would you want a rookie with a 1911 getting your back or a plain Jane “Glock”.
I don't really care what LE chooses, whatever it is it is probably the right choice for whoever chooses it.

However, I'm always intrigued by the "low training bar". If you're so poorly trained that you can't work a thumb safety, why would you conversely be so well trained that you won't a have negligent discharge with a gun with no manual safety.

Hey, if folks don't want a gun with a manual safety, that's fine by me, but I just scratch my head at the folks that are so well trained that the "this is my safety" stuff gets trotted out, but they aren't trained enough to work a manual safety.
 
I don't really care what LE chooses, whatever it is it is probably the right choice for whoever chooses it.

However, I'm always intrigued by the "low training bar". If you're so poorly trained that you can't work a thumb safety, why would you conversely be so well trained that you won't a have negligent discharge with a gun with no manual safety.

Hey, if folks don't want a gun with a manual safety, that's fine by me, but I just scratch my head at the folks that are so well trained that the "this is my safety" stuff gets trotted out, but they aren't trained enough to work a manual safety.
let’s let the LE folks chime in… How much Gun Training does your department give you?
 
The departments that rock Staccatos love them. You can have it both ways.

Kings has le trade in staccato in stock. So somebody must have not liked them.
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Id choose several guns over a 1911 for duty. But I wouldn't worry for a minute if I was issued one either. Just like the Beretta and USP and 226 issue days. Everyone bitched when the departments issued them. Then everyone bitched when the departments dumped them (except the Lem or Dak guys, none of which complained)
 
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My experience in law enforcement has been that those members who are, or become, interested in firearms as more than just a tool, tend to gravitate to higher quality and more complex weapons. In the case of handguns, those who've acquired above-average proficiency will often -- not always, of course -- seek to carry a 1911, even though it typically is a loss in capacity of ten or more rounds.

My last department switched duty pistols from an expensive DA/SA with a frame-mounted safety to a polymer striker-fired pistol, with no manual safety. We anticipated an uptick in NDs, but that didn't transpire. Qual scores went way, way up across the board. With the old pistol, we'd have to have people re-qual who failed the first time or two they shot the qual. Can't remember the last time someone failed handgun with successor pistol. While there were still handgun options for special team members, everyone was pretty happy with the new pistol. As an instructor, not having to teach the de-cocker and safety (and make sure trainees were shooting the first shot DA) made things a lot easier. But then I always remembered having to instruct military guys with no pistol experience on the 1911, which could be painful.

Our training used to be twice a year for line, this consisted of the use of force and use of deadly force, RCW and policy refreshers (classroom), and an eight-hour range session with drills and a qual course for pistol and shotgun, patrol rifle. After several rounds of budget issues through the years, firearms quals went to annually only, though team folks had required quarterly qual courses with additional training days sprinkled in for drills and cool-guy fun stuff. Initial (academy) training is pretty solid, but the fact is, for many (can't speak to all) agencies (in this state), follow-on firearms training for line personnel is more a check-in-the-box shooting a relatively easy qual deal than productive time spent that would develop proficiency. Kinda miss the days of shooting the SMG, but seems like everyone's gone to shorty (10") carbines for entry guns now pretty much.
 
To the guy who posted about the LE trade ins, thanks for posting.

RIA makes a double stack 2011 under $1000.00, and Springfield Armory has in the past as well. Supposedly the RIAs run Para mags, and are similar in some ways to the Staccato (bull barrel, double stack, etc) but are heavier (10 ounces difference unloaded, I believe) as they have a steel frame. When one is trying to save ounces due to the heaviness of a duty belt and all the tools, the ounces matter.

To those who have held both, how does the Staccato and RIA compare in grip width? Is the RIA a true poor officer's Staccato?
 
To the guy who posted about the LE trade ins, thanks for posting.

RIA makes a double stack 2011 under $1000.00, and Springfield Armory has in the past as well. Supposedly the RIAs run Para mags, and are similar in some ways to the Staccato (bull barrel, double stack, etc) but are heavier (10 ounces difference unloaded, I believe) as they have a steel frame. When one is trying to save ounces due to the heaviness of a duty belt and all the tools, the ounces matter.

To those who have held both, how does the Staccato and RIA compare in grip width? Is the RIA a true poor officer's Staccato?
i have, the RIA 2x Stack 9mm was heavier, finish was not impressive… Slide to frame was Tight, Trigger was not professional feeling, but have a very usable break. best part was, $750
 
Is the RIA a true poor officer's Staccato?

No it's based off the Defunct Para. There is a reason they went out of business, lots of companies have tried to resurrect and failed too.


Save your pennies for a proven design.
 
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No it's based off the Defunct Para. There is a reason they went out of business, lots of companies have tried to resurrect and failed too.


Save your pennies for a proven design.

Some years back, when I was active in USPSA, I had a Rock Island double stack tuned up as my backup match pistol. It was based on the Para, as noted, so it was not a direct replacement for my STI. But the gun was similar enough in size, weight, trigger, controls that I could use it without issue if I had to.

I have since sold the gun but was always happy with it. It ran and shot just fine. Would it have held up as a prime competition handgun?
 
I do wonder if Staccato finally figured out how to produce mags that are reliable out of the box without the tuning they notoriously required.

If so, great! But it does seem they are still quite expensive to buy more, though I’m guessing that’s less painful with LEO or department discounts.
From my limited experience of four different guns and around a dozen mags, they are 100% reliable. That’s a couple guys shooting around 600 rounds on a summer afternoon.

But the STI DVC, while a sweeeet shooter, did have a particular mag that had some issues when almost empty.
 
From my limited experience of four different guns and around a dozen mags, they are 100% reliable. That’s a couple guys shooting around 600 rounds on a summer afternoon.

But the STI DVC, while a sweeeet shooter, did have a particular mag that had some issues when almost empty.
oooh yeah! step on your STi mags and see what happens. Tune!
 
oooh yeah! step on your STi mags and see what happens. Tune!

I used an STI in Limited for a number of years. Changed mag springs annually and kept a mag brush handy in my range bag. I don't recall ever having mag issues. And I usually loaded long but the gun didn't care. It ran fine with factory ammo as well.
 
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