Stainless S&W Model 36?

[Bottom Gun]

Can anyone tell me something about this S&W revolver?
It is a stainless J frame in .38 special but it is marked mod 36.
The serial number is 2884xx.

I bought it used at a gun show over 25 years ago. Unfortunately, the former owner had polished to de-horn it. It is definitely stainless steel.

I have never seen or heard of stainless Smith’s with anything but a “6” prefix. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks for looking.

 

[Old Fuff]

You have a early model 36, probably dating from around 1962. The stainless steel version of the model 36 was the model 60, and it was introduced in 1965. These early model 60's were serial numbered for at time within the same series as the model 36, but starting at or about No. 401,754.

I suspect your revolver was originally blued, but someone removed it and polished the gun so it now looks like stainless - but isn't.

If I'm wrong and the gun is truly stainless it would be some kind of a prototype that preceeded the model 60. This is possible, but unlikely.

To confirm what you have, go to www.smith-wesson.com and read the information on obtaining an historical letter. You will need to send a check in the amount of $30.00, made out to Smith & Wesson, a picture of the gun (a hardcopy of the one you posted would do) and a description of the gun including the serial number stamped on the butt. Be sure there are no letter prefixes.

If it is truly stainless, and this was confirmed by S&W historian Roy G. Jinks it would be worth a fair amount of money.

 

[burrhead]

The flat latch, if original, makes me doubt its truly stainless.

 

[Bottom Gun]

Thanks for the good info. I truly appreciate it. I’ll contact S&W and will let you know what the outcome is.

I suspected it was a blue gun when I first saw it but it was such a good deal, I succumbed to my gun fever and bought it anyway.

I have no idea if the latch is original or not. I bought it used like that. I haven’t changed anything but the grips.

It has been carried a lot in the 27 years I have owned it. It was carried daily for about ten years and now my lady carries it. It has seldom been wiped down aside from cleaning after shooting, especially since Pamm has been using it.
In short, it has seen some abuse yet there is no sign of any corrosion or discoloration.
I would have expected a naked carbon steel revolver to show some signs of surface corrosion after 25+ years of very little oil applied to the surface.

Also, the frame under the grips, including the internal cavities appear to be matt finish stainless. I cannot find any sign of blue anywhere even in the smallest nooks and crannies. It has a few freckles in there like most of my stainless guns do but no major corrosion.
I will attach some more crummy photos of the frame so you can see what I mean. If it was ever blued, it had to have been removed chemically to preserve the matt finish.

The extractor is blue but the recess under it is what appears to be matt finish stainless like the inside of the frame. There is no sign of blue in the internal radii of the recess. The roll pin in the butt is a matt finish stainless.

I have not had the side plate off as I am fearful of UFO’s and have no desire to assume the classic gunsmith position on my hands and knees with my nose in the carpet. I really don’t think it is necessary at this point judging from the condition of the frame and since I will contact Roy as you suggested.

I really do think this is a stainless gun.

Thanks again for your help.

-Ken

 

[BigG]

I believe it's a blue one that's been shined. Look at the top strap. There is no wave there on a 60s vintage S&W. If it were dehorned, wouldn't they remove the hammer spur before buffing the dang thing?

 

[Bottom Gun]

I don't know about the top strap. I have to confess I don't know much about these revolvers which is why I'm asking you guys what your thoughts are.

The hammer spur has been buffed to the point the checkering is almost smooth. As far as leaving the spur intact, who knows why people do things to guns? I, personally, would not have buffed it at all.
The S&W emblem on the frame has also apparently seen a great deal of polishing. It looks bad.

It may very well be a blue gun but if so, why hasn't the surface rusted after all the years of carry with so little maintenance? I am in a dry climate now, but things still corrode here. Also, I have had this gun in very humid climates as well such as the Florida coast, Seattle, and the Middle Atlantic states.
I always believed it was a stainless model 60 so I always treated it like a stainless gun. It was only recently that I noticed the model 36 marking which got me curious.

Also, I cannot figure out why there is no blue inside the frame yet no signs of polishing there. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I can take more photos of different areas if it will help solve this mystery. Is there a particular area anyone would like to see?

I do appreciate you guys helping me out with this. I hope I can return the favor some day.

- Ken

 

[Bottom Gun]

A breakthrough!!!

I just made a breakthrough in determining the material. I think it is definitely stainless steel.

I put some 44/40 cold blue on it inside the top strap. I let it work for 5 minutes.
The blue had no effect whatsoever.
That tells me without a doubt that it is stainless as carbon steel should have immediately turned black.

Now I need to figure out how to determine if it's worth anything. I'm going to get a letter of authenticity from S&W. I think it might be $30 well spent.

If anyone has any idea how I can determine the value (if any) of this oddity, I would sure like to hear about it.

 

[Old Fuff]

If it's stainless, and you get it lettered, the letter will tell in detail how many were made, and why. After that you can determine a value.

 

[BigG]

Hey - good luck on it. I could be wrong. S&W has made a lot of one-off type stuff over the years. There are mismarked guns with the wrong model or caliber, etc. They didn't seem to have any extra collectibility over their correctly marked brothers. Maybe that is changing?

The reason I thought that Stainless was not made earlier was they couldn't tool it until they came up with the right alloy. That was why they never made them earlier than the model 60, which was introduced in 1965. The earlier stainless alloys would tend to tear rather than cut.

Not only that, but dehorning is to make a gun easier to shoot and pocket. Not to buff off the sideplates of the gun, topstrap, hammer etc. That's why I think it is a gun that has been chemically stripped and hit with a high speed buffing wheel. Is there an "N" stamped on the back of the cylinder, by chance.

 

[Jim K]

Perhaps someone (Fuff?) can either confirm or deny, but my recollection is that S&W first put out the SS Chiefs Special around 1965 as the Model 36, just adding SS to the blue/nickel and Airweight options. The guns were marked Model 36 and were serial numbered in the Model 36 range. They made a handful, but found that SS tore up the tooling something awful. An S&W executive told me they could make 20 carbon steel guns with the same amount of tool wear as one SS gun. So they stopped production of the SS Chiefs and went looking for harder tool steel. Some folks thought that was the end of SS guns and for a while those few SS Chiefs Specials were bringing fantastic prices ($600 and up - in the 1960's!).

Then S&W found the right tools and resumed production, renaming the gun the Model 60.

If this is correct, an SS Chiefs Special marked Model 36 would indeed be a pretty rare and I think valuable gun, if in original condition.

Jim

 

[Bottom Gun]

Very interesting. It would be nice if this turned out to be valuable. Too bad someone did such an amateurish buff job.

The are no markings on the cylinder at all that I can see. I even looked under the extractor.

I'll get a request for a letter out to S&W this weekend and let you guys know what they have to say.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[BigG]

Perhaps someone (Fuff?) can either confirm or deny, but my recollection is that S&W first put out the SS Chiefs Special around 1965 as the Model 36, just adding SS to the blue/nickel and Airweight options.

The Standard Catalog is silent on this. It only indicates blue or nickel.

 

[BigG]

I meant to tell you to try to stick a magnet to it. Some stainless steel is non magnetic.

 

[dfariswheel]

Have you considered that it might be hard chrome plated.

A common feature of some older hard chrome jobs is an un-plated ejector that's left in the natural blue color. This was because some plating types added too much thickness and the cylinder would bind so the ejector was left un-plated.

Another possibility is it was a nickel plated gun at one time.
You said there's a "N" on the cylinder. Check the frame under the grips for another "N".
The "N" signified a factory nickel plated gun.

As far as I remember, the S&W stainless "J" frame was S&W's FIRST stainless gun and it was made ONLY as the Model 60 Chief's Special.
I still remember when it was introduced, and it was ballyhooed as the world's first stainless steel revolver.
It was on all the gun magazine covers, and ALWAYS as the Model 60.

For this reason, I strongly suspect your gun is either a degraded nickel plate or a hard chrome plated gun.
It definitely has a hard chrome look, and the blued ejector is something you used to see on hard chrome revolvers.

A sure test is to pick an out of the way spot on the frame under the grips and use a stone or file to remove a small amount of metal.
Then test with cold blue.

 

[Old Fuff]

The "first" J-frame in stainless steel was supposed to be the model 60, and like Jim I remember when it came out in '65. They were soon selling for substantially more then the manufacturer's suggested retail price.

That said, this revolver was supposed to be ENTIRELY stainless steel, and that included springs, lockwork, and the ejector. However I'm sure S&W made prototypes, but I'd expect them to have an "X" prefix serial number. And again Jim's right about what these little revolvers did to the factory's tooling.

Anyway, the only person who would know for sure is Roy Jinks. He can check the records and see what finish is listed for this particular serial number. I learned a long time ago when it comes to Smith & Wesson, never ever say something didn't happen....

 

[Bottom Gun]

There is no "N" marked on the cylinder or the frame.
It is magnetic just like my other stainless guns.
If you look close, you can see some slight freckling under the grips. You can even see a little in one of the photos I posted. My other stainless guns are exactly the same way. I don't think nickel will corrode at all but stainless will.
I really do think this is stainless. It looks and behaves exactly like my other stainless S&W's.

Hopefully, we'll find out for sure soon. I sent a request for a letter of authenticity to Roy Jinks yesterday. I also included a short note expressing my curiosity as to the material. It's a waiting game now.

 

[Old Fuff]

Expect a 6 to 8 week wait. Roy is up to his eyeballs with requests, and I suspect he may be going to the SHOT Show this month.

 

[Jim K]

That stainless J frame (by whatever name) was not only S&W's first SS gun, AFAIK, it was the world's first. S&W later billed it for use around salt water, or when camping, hiking, etc., but that was a bit specious, since a 2" J frame would hardly be an ideal sailing or camping gun. The "sporting" business was PR hype. The gun was actually intended for plain clothes police, whose guns tended to sort of dissolve in the shoulder holsters common at the time. Perspiration, not sea water, was the culprit.

Jim