Stand by Taiwan

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FRIZ

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The Weekly Standard
12/22/2003, Volume 009, Issue 15

Stand by Taiwan
by Robert Kagan and William Kristol

To avert such a crisis, the president needs to revert to his core principles and make clear that the United States supports the Taiwanese democracy.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/495eqsfi.asp

IT WAS A SAD SPECTACLE: Sitting next to Chinese premier Wen Jiabao, visiting emissary from the world's largest dictatorship, President Bush last week performed a kowtow that would have made Bill Clinton blush. Following a script dictated by Beijing, and translated into English by senior national security council official James Moriarty, the president condemned Taiwan's popularly elected president for certain unspecified "comments and actions" indicating a desire for Taiwan's independence. Moriarty then proceeded to tell reporters "on background" that what the president really meant was that he opposed Taiwan's plans to hold a referendum this coming March. The Chinese premier professed himself delighted by the administration's condemnation of Taiwan and opposition to a referendum, reminded everyone that China still reserves the right to use military force against Taiwan in the event of any "provocations," and traveled back to China gloating about the American president's gift to Beijing. Not so long ago, President Bush described China's heavily armed tyranny as a "strategic competitor" of the United States. Now the administration is soft as marshmallows, so eager to please that it endangers a democratic ally's fundamental security--and our own credibility and leadership in East Asia.

Last week's misstep on Taiwan is dangerous. Fortunately, there is time to undo much of the damage.

The facts in the Taiwan case are straightforward enough. Over the past few years, China has been building a vast arsenal of short-range ballistic missiles across the strait from Taiwan. At present some 496 of these missiles are ready to be launched at a moment's notice against the Taiwanese people. Chinese leaders, both military and "civilian," have repeatedly, and quite recently, warned that China is willing to use force if necessary to make Taiwan surrender its sovereignty and accept Beijing's rule. The Pentagon, both under this and the previous administration, has reported that Beijing's ability to launch a successful attack on Taiwan is increasing rapidly, while Taiwan's ability to defend itself is decreasing--and the ability of the United States effectively to intervene may be decreasing as well.

Now, in response to this alarming situation, Taiwan's President Chen is proposing to hold what he calls a "defensive referendum" in March on the question of Beijing's missiles. He is hoping, and with good reason, that the Taiwanese people will vote overwhelmingly to demand that China remove these missiles and commit to a peaceful resolution of the cross-straits issue. Chen's critics in the Bush National Security Council claim that Chen is playing politics with the issue in his reelection campaign. And indeed, Chen does hope that his public position regarding China's missile threat will serve him well in the March elections--a bit the way President Bush hopes his position regarding the war on terrorism will help him next November. In both cases, the point is that the two presidents expect to be rewarded politically for faithfully expressing the majority view in their countries. And in neither case does the fact that the policy is politically popular make it illegitimate.

The problem for Chen, however, is that the Chinese government has always hated the idea of a referendum in Taiwan--any referendum on any subject. For one thing, Beijing's dictators don't like expressions of democracy, either in territories they control, like Hong Kong, or in countries they want to control, like Taiwan. Beijing also fears that the more the Taiwanese people have a chance to express their views freely, the more likely that someday they will express the view that they want to be truly and officially independent. So China wants to squelch democratic expression in Taiwan as much as possible. And now, unbelievably, so do some senior officials in the Bush administration. In his background interviews with the press, Moriarty told reporters that the administration opposes any referendum on any topic. But Bush has never made such a statement, nor has any administration official in a public setting.

That is the silver lining in this otherwise dark cloud. Despite its disagreeable kowtow last week, the Bush administration can still maintain--and needs to insist--that it has not changed longstanding American policy toward Taiwan. After all, the president simply repeated old American warnings against Taiwan's changing the "status quo" regarding its sovereignty. But President Chen has made it abundantly clear that he has no intention of taking such steps. In his inaugural address in May 2000, President Chen declared that as long as China "has no intention to use military force against Taiwan, I pledge that during my term in office, I will not declare independence, I will not change the national title, I will not push for the inclusion of the so-called 'state-to-state' description in the Constitution, and I will not promote a referendum to change the status quo in regards to the question of independence or unification." President Chen is abiding by that pledge. His proposed referendum has nothing to do with the issue of independence. It therefore does not run afoul of President Bush's admonition.

So there is a way out of this mess. President Chen will officially announce that the subject of the March referendum will indeed be China's missiles and not independence. The Bush administration should then make it clear, publicly, that it has no objection to the Taiwanese people's exercising their democratic right to hold a referendum on such a question. It should at the same time make clear the American view that China has no right to undertake or threaten military action in response to the referendum, and the American commitment to respond appropriately if China engages in any such threats--that we would "do whatever it took" to defend the Taiwanese democracy, to quote the president from a couple of years ago.

This is the right course for two reasons: First, it honors rather than betrays President Bush's commitment to support democracy and democratic practices around the world. Second, it deters the Chinese from believing they can get away with military intimidation this coming spring or in the future. For that is the great risk that Moriarty's policy has created. If China believes the United States opposes Taiwan's referendum, then Beijing's leaders may also believe that Bush will stand by and do nothing if they threaten or take military action. Other nations in Asia--and around the world--are also watching. Does it increase confidence in U.S. strength and leadership if they see China succeeding in pushing the United States around because Beijing doesn't like a democratic referendum nearby?

We believe that in fact Bush will not stand by and let China fire missiles at or near Taiwan this spring. But the present policy risks encouraging such a miscalculation by Beijing, and thus makes a crisis more likely. To avert such a crisis, the president needs to revert to his core principles and make clear that the United States supports the Taiwanese democracy. Here, as so often, prudence and honor offer the same counsel.
 
I like asian countries minus china. anybody that likes a computers or gaming consoles should back japan,taiwan,south korea,singapore. taiwan goes expect computer prices to sky rocket overnight. sub $1000 to $3000+.

imagine what would happen to this country if availibility of games,consoles and computers dissapeared. whole lot of people mad.
 
No amount of good intentions should blind us to the evil regime in China. That our elected leaders even deal with this abomination is disgusting:barf: .

Imagine being in Taiwan. The leader of the free world continues to kiss butt in China. Mind you, the only thing stopping Taiwan from becoming a province of China is the U.S. I venture to guess that, sometime in the future, a deal will be struck for the annexation of Taiwan, just like Hong Kong. The Taiwanese will be helpless to stop it as the "world community" basks in their glory in subduing another free country.

Wal-Mart, and other cheap retial outlets, have made a bazillion dollars from cheap, oppressed Chinese labor, and "value-minded" American shoppers. Think of this the next time you see "Made in China."

Finally, The US will be at war with China in the future. The two ideologies can not co-exist (except when we play nice). How can the home of the BOR continue to play nice with the last big totalitarian state?

We must bury theRed China regime just like we did the USSR.
 
Great isn't it? 23 Million people's rights ignored due to trade. These same people also don't have access to the WHO, remember SARS? Yeah, no access. WHO? ASEAN? the UN? Yeah, officially they don't care.

Dan
 
It looks as if an independent Taiwan has already been written off for the greater glory of global high finance. Figure it as a second Hong Kong. Whether this is ultimately a good or bad thing, for us, remains to be seen. (For the Taiwanese it sounds less than great.)

War with China? Well, we are at war with them now, in a sublimated fashion, of course, and looking at the trade statistics they are winning. If we plan to win either a hot or cold war with China we'd better get serious about producing more home-grown scientists and engineers and fewer lawyers and rap stars. While a lot of our young people appear to have serious reservations about America, the Chinese are highly nationalistic. That bodes ill.
 
Taiwan should have declared their independence back in 1979 when Carter and the UN officially recognized the mainland as the official China. If Taiwan had done that back then, then their would be 24 years of being a soveriegn nation and make it all the harder for the mainland to make a fuss and easier for the US to defend Taiwan.
 
This may be a long shot, but there may be a strategic element to this, until we manage to get the genie back in the bottle in North Korea. I'm not happy with selling out Taiwan, but it could be a play to get China to lean on a neighbor which could be a threat to a LOT of people, then perhaps we'd revisit the current stance.

Just a thought.
 
I've spent a lot of time on Taiwan (the Republic of China) and the fact is they ARE an independent country. The PRC has their panties in a wad and has enough power to make the RoC play silly games in various international organizations, but they have no right to claim sovereignty over this little nation. Taiwan is not perfect, it is barely a democracy, but the PRC is pure evil and it will be a sad day if we ever forsake those on Taiwan. IMHO, the PRC is our enemy and we should teat it as such.
 
bad poker

We need to trade Taiwan to keep down the North Koreans? Well, what will we need to trade to keep down the Chinese? Our entire economy?

Taiwan has been bartered to keep the American consumer happy for a while, not to mention the fatcats--the Walton family comes to mind--that profit from providing the greatest good, allegedly, for the greatest number.
 
Well..

Since I'm:

1) Taiwanese
2) IN TAIWAN

I guess I'll give my 2 NT's... :D

You know how Soccer induces (for unknown reason) raging bar fights in Brazil whenever the topic comes up and two sides disagree? Well, Taiwan's independence is the same way here.

But most are missing the boat..

China cannot let Taiwan become independent, not for Taiwan's sake. It has so little to do with Taiwan, the island they'd like to forget, so much as the other provinces of China..

Taiwan goes independent, we are CHINESE, we speak MANDARIN, we are one and the same as those in China sans the political views.

Tibet, Mongolia, Western China, Northern China, Russo China, Korean China etc... they aren't the same people, they speak a different language, and they have longed for independence, they just don't have the trade clout Taiwan has.

If Taiwan is "set free", you can bet on the bloodbath ahead. The Taiwanese could care less about the Tibetain blood that is shed afterwards, that's not a Taiwan problem, that's a Tibetain problem.

In the Microscopic view, yes, Taiwan _should_ be independent. Do I support it? How's this: I support anything China opposes. But I also understand the big picture.

The Taiwanese under the Taiwanese president are playing a dangerous game. While embargo's and tariffs will effect other countries, it will not work with China, and so might via trade will not work against China. So what can you resort to? Military might??

If you learn anything from "The Princess Bride", you know, "NEVER START A LAND WAR IN ASIA"... That's #1.

I don't see the Taiwanese Independence solving anything; in fact, I see it bringing instability to Asia. WHO? UN? Taiwan keeps wanting to join, but in fact, I'm happy about the fact that Taiwan has no boyz in blue helmets.

Taiwan cannot repel an attack from China, and even if we could, there are 3 main ports in Taiwan, and if any of them were taken out, Taiwan would become utterly useless over night. So the Ante is too high, for what you would gain.

"Independence"?? We are independent. They are China, we are Taiwan... What Taiwan wants is international recognition... and that's a whole different matter. Taiwan wants to join the UN, the WHO, anything and everything. And for what? So it can thumb its nose at China..

Anytime you do something just so you can do this: :neener: :neener: :neener: it leads to bad ends.
 
The Taiwanese President, trying not to lose face, when asked for proof of the hostile intentions of China against Taiwan; started naming locations of where China kept missile silo's. China was intrigued as to how the taiwanese knew, and started a mole hunt, resulting in the capture (and I'm sure death) of some Taiwanese spies..

:rolleyes:

Stupidity knows no bounds... and saving face is always worth more than human lives in the chinese tradition :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I hate China, but you want me to support stupidity like that??:cuss: :banghead: :fire: :barf:
 
Not being born in Taiwan, but having two parents who are I can vouche for what Twoblink has said. I grew up learning that it's a bad idea for Taiwan to declare itself independent, because once they do that who is going to stop Shang Hai, Hunan or other areas in china deciding they don't want to be a part of the PRC. So if the PRC wants to hold control they are going to blow up that island.

These reports always scare me, because I have family still living there and just one mistake or press of the button could be the end for them all.:(
 
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I keep saying that we will end up fighting the ChiComs.

Remember when Lt. Wong Wei ran his fighter jet in front of our EP-3? I think the ChiComs wanted to charge us $1 million dollars for putting up our crew in a hotel room. I wonder if GWB paid them already behind our backs. :fire:
 
Well this is a lot of BS tied together

Remember how F---'d up all the vendettas in the middle east messed up the area? Or the genocides in the Balkans? Well I bring you a similar version in Taiwan. (disclaimer: my pet version)


Taiwan was never a recognized piece of China. When the warlords in China backstabbed and chased each other in the vast land wars, Japan had its way with Taiwan.

Then the last ruling party occupied Taiwan after getting kicked out China by the communists. (for 30 years they said they were temporarily stationing in Taiwan before reclaiming rightfull ownership of China) That ruling party also killed/jailed many Taiwan native leaders and intelligentsia in Gestapo fashion. This occupation is the reason Taiwan did not go independent when China entered the UN. Face saving (in a strange way)

The current ruling party finally came into power after years of political persecution in a fortunate political falling out: the last ruling party KMT had a faction splintering off. The three way race gave the Taiwan-born party a chance. The current ruling party has never kowtow'd to China. China continues its policy of minimizing Taiwan internationally. But the leaders in the other two parties take their turn kowtowing to the Chinese. The other two parties and their consituents are the ones who wish to please the Chinese.

My family was born in Taiwan for many generations. We had real roots there, unlike the newcomers (I'd like to call them occupation force). Does anyone wonder why the oldtimers want independence (internationally recognized) and be rid of the China problem? Imagine two gangsters fighting, one takes over your house, the other beseiges it with you inside. Only the first one also takes away your armory, empties your fridge, and locks you up in the basement. This first one claims sovereignty over your house and the entire subdivision outside. Maybe you'd also want to get out and just be rid of the two gangsters.:fire:


Well, the US, to whom I swear my allegiance now, took care of me. Let's take a look from this perspective: The right thing to do is to stop the gangsters (years too late). The moral thing to do is to play police (costs lives and money). The profitable thing to do is to maintain status quo: keep trading and let the sides have their rhetorics. I cannot expect the entire population of the US to pay the extraordinary price of playing world police. The cost benefit analysis indicates the status quo is best. while the bar fights go on.


If I could wish one thing? Will US condemn the Chinese for bullying?
 
I keep saying that we will end up fighting the ChiComs.
Many of us thought that we would end up fighting the Soviets, too. Look what happened to them.
Stupidity knows no bounds... and saving face is always worth more than human lives in the chinese tradition
If you knew of the story of how one of our spies, I mean operatives, sat and died in Chinese prison a while back to save our "face," you would not be so quick to deem such face-saving efforts as uniquely Chinese in tradition.
Taiwan has been bartered to keep the American consumer happy for a while, not to mention the fatcats--the Walton family comes to mind--that profit from providing the greatest good, allegedly, for the greatest number.
Except Taiwan too makes many products that we need such as computer chips and LCDs. The whole "fatcat" theory is a tad bit too Marxist (certainly classist) for my taste. The reality is rarely that simplistic.
War with China? Well, we are at war with them now, in a sublimated fashion, of course, and looking at the trade statistics they are winning.
You mean the way the Japanese were "winning" the secret war against the US back in 1980s because of their superior trade statistics? You do realize that Japan has been mired in a perpetual "structural" recession since then while our economy has grown in leaps and bounds, don't you?
If we plan to win either a hot or cold war with China we'd better get serious about producing more home-grown scientists and engineers and fewer lawyers and rap stars.
Funny thing is we DO have more scientists and engineers who publish and invent new things than China does. Our educational establishments of higher learning are first class and show no sign of being overtaken by anyone else for the foreseeable future (sure, that's no guarantee of perpetual superiority - we too will have our time and fade).

Furthermore, China is trying like crazy to have more lawyers! Why? Because their legal system lacks even the basic structures of a functioning, modern legal system, which is necessary for a functioning, modern economy-society. There may be a lot of sleazy lawyers, but lawyers as a class are fairly valuable in sustaining a society of law rather than that of arbitrary government force. As for the rap stars, I don't care for their music, but they do seem to earn quite a bit of the export dollars that you value. I don't know how well Chinese underwear sells in the global market as opposed to underwear made in Indonesia (or Malaysia or the Philippines or...), but I do know that nothing sells like American music (or other stored entertainment) all over the globe. I mean, who is listening to Chinese pop music in India?
While a lot of our young people appear to have serious reservations about America, the Chinese are highly nationalistic. That bodes ill.
Actually surveys have found Americans to be perhaps some of the most nationalistic people on the planet.
 
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