Standard Manufacturing S333 “Thunderstruck”

[BreechFace]

How is this not by definition a machine gun?

Two shots of 22mag with one pull of the trigger.

 

[Demi-human]

Because they sent a letter to the BAFTE and have gotten it cleared as “not a machine gun”.


And, it’s so ugly there won’t be anyone clamoring for it, so I suspect they aren’t worried about it.
That’s also not a complete trigger guard...

Here is the letter from the ATF stating that this revolver is not a machine gun.
(Obviously, right?)
https://stdgun.com/content/S333ATF.pdf

 

[BreechFace]

So it seems that a manual operated pepper box is now legal with a “here’s your hall pass,” letter from the ATF. Until the ATF goes back and forth on its legality causing confusion, angst and distrust of the whole process again.

Haven’t we been down this road with the bureaucrats at the ATF before?

 

[unclenunzie]

Skip to the summary on page 5, and you see why they determine it is a "firearm" and not a "machine gun".

I like it as a curiosity, in the same way as the hieser/double-tap derringer, but have no plan to buy either.

 

[BreechFace]

@unclenunzie yes, I see they labeled it a “Firearm” (edited from AOW).

It just seems pretty clear when the NFA says one “one bullet with one pull,” it’s hard to find grey area there.

Personally, the bumpstocks met the legal requirements for compliance where this absolutely doesn’t. More reasons why the NFA is ridiculous as well as the ATF’s letters that they end up flip flopping on.

These letters should evaluate the merits on whether an item is in compliance with the laws on the books and should end there. None of this back and forth we have going on, either they meet the laws or they don’t.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, that it would not surprise me in the least if they flipped back and forth on more of these memos causing companies and buyers uncertainty in the market.

 

[pdsmith505]

Don't forget the double-barrel 1911!


And the double-barrel AR-15!


Those seem to be OK because you have to pull both triggers to get two rounds off. 2 triggers pulled = 2 rounds = 1 round per trigger pull.

As for the S333, it seems like the ATF decided that manually pulling the trigger to light off two rounds didn't meet the re-imagined definition of "automatically" they came up with during the bump-stock fiasco.
https://stdgun.com/content/S333ATF.pdf

 

[pdsmith505]

@unclenunzie yes, I see they labeled it AOW alongside the TAC-14 and Shockwave’s.

They did not classify it as an AOW. It's simply a firearm, specifically a handgun with rifled barrels. The TAC-14 and Shockwave aren't AOWs either (they are considered too long to conceal). If they were, they would require a Form 4 (and a $5 tax) to transfer.

26 USC 5845 defines the term AOW, which specifically excludes pistols with a rifled bore or bores.

 

[BreechFace]

@pdsmith505 Thanks for the clarification, I reread their classification and see they have it under “firearm”.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Volley fire is an old thing with the ATF and there are other old examples like it out there. It is different, which is what this is, a volley fire revolver.

 

[BreechFace]

According to this article the ATF in their benevolence has allowed for multiple bullets with one trigger pull if they utilize separate barrels.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2019/1/10/new-for-2019-standard-mfg-s333-volleyfire/

Copied from linked article above:

“...the ATF does make an exception for "volley guns" and allows the manufacture and sale of firearms that fire more than one round with each pull of the trigger, provided that those rounds are fired from separate barrels.”

Volley fire is an old thing with the ATF and there are other old examples like it out there. It is different, which is what this is, a volley fire revolver.

I hadn’t studied volley fire guns but it looks as if you are correct @Ohen Cepel. Is there anywhere in the U.S. code that specifies “volley fire from different barrels” being legal or is this just another “revocable hall pass” by the ATF?

 

[dogtown tom]

So it seems that a manual operated pepper box is now legal with a “here’s your hall pass,” letter from the ATF...

When was a manually operated pepperbox pistol illegal?

 

[BreechFace]

When was a manually operated pepperbox pistol illegal?

It was my ignorance that I thought they were illegal, I had not studied pepperbox legality. The manual operated pepperbox seems in direct conflict with “one bullet, one pull.” Just another example of the ridiculous nature of gun laws.

 

[MachIVshooter]

So it seems that a manual operated pepper box is now legal with a “here’s your hall pass,” letter from the ATF.

Never assume that a determination on one firearm applies to anything else. Each FTB determination is specific to the item and person/company, has no implication beyond that and provides no variance or protection for another entity making a similar thing.