Steel Gong Targets - Safe Angle

Captains1911

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I have a little range at my house with several circular plate/gong style steel targets, as well as few cheap Champion .22 diamond-shaped pop-up targets. Some of the small plates are rated for .22 only, but I do have a few 3/8" AR500 plates that I occasionally shoot with 9mm and 300 BLK sub-sonic. I have all of the gong style targets just hanging from paracord, so they are not angled downward at all, and free to swing. My question pertains mainly to shooting the the AR500 plates with centerfire ammunition, and assuming the recommended safe distance away, is it safe for these to be hanging vertical, or should they be angled downwards (20-degrees or so) similar to a fixed target? I've read mixed reviews. Thanks for the help.
 
You can mount them on angled stands or you can hang them using long eye bolts behind them. In some cases you can get them to hang at an angle that way. 20 yards is a generally safe distance for handguns and .22LR IMO. Rifles you want at least 50 if not 100 yards to prevent damage. Speed kills steel. You must always plan on some frag coming back and wear good eye pro.
 
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I have all of the gong style targets just hanging from paracord, so they are not angled downward at all, and free to swing.

Hanging is fine but you want to ensure that the surface is perpendicular to you when you fire at it. If it turns sideways you bullet could be deflected, in one piece, PTO other directions, side to side. Just depends if you are using one attachment and it’s swinging like a wind chime or if you use two and it returns to its original position after each shot, like this one hung with old fire hose.

D95B20D3-00EC-4FA7-BD3C-C1975207EB96.jpeg

Also let it come back to rest before you hit it again. I watched some guys shooting at a steel rotating target similar to this one, 2FA7DC66-289A-404A-9B96-E38041DB35D6.jpeg

It was a quite large version and they were driving it backwards with multiple hits to the top target. I heard the buzz of a ricochet before I went over there and asked them if they had any idea where those were going and they stopped. Didn’t matter, the rage was closed the next week…Red Zone Ranch opened 2012, closed 2012.

Berms are useless if you let your equipment throw bullets above them or to either side.

You also need to make sure the face stays flat. This Is actually a good video showing both what you do and don’t want to happen. At the beginning, notice the steel is compromised but also note the spray back towards the firearm. Now fast forward to 7:30 in where the plate stays flat and the spray is radial at the target, not going back towards the shooter.

 
Pock marked plates may send shrapnel in your direction. My target was unsafe @ 100 yards. Sent to scrap yard.

Side splatter comming off the plate can be very dangerous. See wood leg.

EDIT/Add- My club allowed a dueling tree to be placed at 25 yards for handguns. The rifle shooters pock marked it.
i get to the range one day, a guy is shooting 9mm at 7 yards. The dueling tree was gone the next day.
Shooters that dont know better, must be saved from themselves. :uhoh:
 

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A few months ago, I learned my neighbor had a lead round nose 45 acp bullet ricochet off his target stand and penetrate his stomach. He life flighted to the hospital. He survived with emergency surgery.

He was using AR500 gongs on a heavy duty steel pipe target stand. He might've been too close but I blame the heavy steel target stand he was using.
He has sworn off using steel gongs.

I use a real light weight metal conduit target stand for my gongs and shoot them at an angle. No issues so far.
There is a steep hill behind my gongs that acts as a backstop.
Gongs.jpg
 
Sometimes weird things happen. In my experience .22LR sends back more frag, and free standing targets like knock down plates sitting on welded flat bases bounce back more stuff compared to solid mounted ones. This is judging based on matches. You want the bullets to flatten and disintegrate IMO. Harder and thicker steel more solidly mounted seems like it would be better for that. If it can move it can absorb more energy and maybe spring back. At least that’s my opinion. It would be interesting to see some slo mo or otherwise scientific info showing the effects of different bullets and calibers at different speeds.

I do know that cratered steel as well as wood and tires can certainly send bullets back at you. And if the angle and conditions are right, dirt can bounce them back. I was shooting my .45 ACP into an inclined dirt road surface once (Safe backstop/hill behind) and the bullets were bouncing up into the air and landing in a pile near my feet. You could see it happen. Weird.
 
If you hang it from the back on chain that should give it enough angle to not bounce metal back at you but any dents or cratered steel will deflect shrapnel back at you so check your gongs frequently.
 
You can mount them on angled stands or you can hang them using long eye bolts behind them. In some cases you can get them to hang at an angle that way. 20 yards is a generally safe distance IMO. You must always plan on some frag coming back and wear good eye pro.


I get the same effect by using long carriage bolts and using extra nuts as spacers between the plate and the chain. hard to see but its' got a slight backward angle:

lL1Dydtl.jpg
 
Can you guys show me a pic of how your connecting the chain to the back of the bolt? Also, what length bolt is enough to achieve the desired downward angle, 3”?
I've I get out that way (and remember) I'll take a picture tomorrow. We're still hunting around here and I've got a doe to butcher.

Most of the TGTs are cut for a square carriage bolt. So I just:

Push a 3" carriage bolt through your TGT. Most of mine are 3/8ths. Make sure your chain fits your bolts (or your bolts fit your chain).
Add a couple oversized nuts to get your desired angle (any kind of spacer will do, pipe etc.)
Add a washer
put chain on
washer
Lock nut

So: Bolt - TGT Plate - nut(s)/Spacer - washer-chain- washer- lock nut

It effectively puts the hang point behind the TGT and provides a backward angle.
 
Pro tip, as @Chuck R. says, be sure to use a lock nut/nylok washer to hold the outermost nut securing the chain or rope. They'll vibrate off quickly if you just use a regular nut. Unless you plan to check/tighten after every range session. Also don't be tempted to use hex-headed bolts with the hex exposed on the front. Use rounded/button headed bolts. You'll eventually shoot them off but they last longer and don't send so much frag back at you IME.
 
Another tip is to reverse the steel regulary, to prevent "cupping". We keep 22/larger caliber pistol shooters back 25 yds, and rifle shooters back 100 yds. Shooting 22 lr at heavier targets designed for larger calibers can have fragments/bullets coming back at ya. We have a seperate 22lr range with smaller/lighter AR 500 targets.
 
Ok, this project turned out to cost more than I had planned, but I think it turned out well. I have two of these stands with several targets that I can easily rearrange as I want. The bolt and chain assemblies move with their respective targets, because they require a different number of spacers (extra nuts) based on their weight to achieve a consistent downward angle. Thanks for the help.

IMG-1762.jpg


IMG-1763.jpg
 
Shooting 22 lr at heavier targets designed for larger calibers can have fragments/bullets coming back at ya. We have a seperate 22lr range with smaller/lighter AR 500 targets.

Do you think this is as much of an issue with the downward angle like you can see in my photos above? Most of my 3/8" targets will still be shot mostly with 22, I just like having the option to shoot them with larger calibers on occasion. I have yet to have any issues shooting these with 22 when they were hanging vertical, so assume it's only safer now.
 
Ok, this project turned out to cost more than I had planned, but I think it turned out well. I have two of these stands with several targets that I can easily rearrange as I want. The bolt and chain assemblies move with their respective targets, because they require a different number of spacers (extra nuts) based on their weight to achieve a consistent downward angle. Thanks for the help.

IMG-1762.jpg


IMG-1763.jpg

I don't want to be debbie downer but when you or your friends shoot the crossbeam / your mounts, you might consider these hangers:

It's what I'm using. I do like your bolt arrangement on the gongs though, I might have to do that myself.
 
Do you think this is as much of an issue with the downward angle like you can see in my photos above? Most of my 3/8" targets will still be shot mostly with 22, I just like having the option to shoot them with larger calibers on occasion. I have yet to have any issues shooting these with 22 when they were hanging vertical, so assume it's only safer now.
Any caliber bullet is long gone (deflected) before the target swings.
My DIY tree angle:
TreeSideS.jpg
Built from this kit, bought off ebay:
AR500tree.jpg

jmo,
.
 
Ok, this project turned out to cost more than I had planned, but I think it turned out well. I have two of these stands with several targets that I can easily rearrange as I want. The bolt and chain assemblies move with their respective targets, because they require a different number of spacers (extra nuts) based on their weight to achieve a consistent downward angle. Thanks for the help.

IMG-1762.jpg
Your design looks just like my first iteration. Here are some comments based on my experiences:
1. You may want to replace the cross bar with wood 2x4 ...the pipe will bend eventually. (Highwild AR500 2x4 & Pipe Target Stand Bracket Kit | Targets Hanger). There are similar brackets for the legs that allow electrical conduit for the legs.
2. I found that if you are using electrical conduit for the legs, they will be damaged and have to be replaced UNLESS you slide wood dowels into them....that reinforces them without adding much weight.
 
I am another that angles them. Carriage bolts and either chains or rubber straps. I have never had a bounce back and I have used them for years. Lead pistol bullets make the dust fly under the gong and you will find very thin discs of lead underneath. The tip to use a lock nut for the final nut on the bolt is spot on.
 
I am of the opinion that safety is based primarily on distance. I am sure bullet construction, that is steel core, will have an affect on safety distance.

I shot tens of thousands of rounds into this target over several decades.

nk0yfdX.jpg



Pistol rounds were all lead, JHP, JSP, FMJ. I shot 44 Magnum down to 32 S&W Long. It was pointless to shoot 22lr as the splatters were small and the disc would not move. I never moved the target closer than 25 yards. And I never had any bullet fragments come back to the firing line. There were lots of lead discs within a foot or two of the target, some star shaped bullet jackets would actually float in windy conditions and land maybe ten feet away. I did not shoot any steel core anything, at any distance, rifle or pistol. The discs were soft steel, and as you can see, dented. I shot FMJ/steel core once at 150 yards with a M28 Finnish. When I walked up, I had three divots in the plate. that was the end of that experiment!


I did shoot hundreds of lead bullets from lever actions, military rifles, and muskets at 100 yards. Nothing ever came back near the firing line.

oqnjg0t.jpg



However, even smoke pole rifles were hard on the welds. The musket did this to my target one day.

17xfXKg.jpg



It was surprise to see how hard a 510 grain soft lead bullet would whack a target!

None of the steel pistol targets at CMP Talladega are closer than 15 yards, and the plates are angled down.


When I look at youtube videos, the "elite marksman" are banging away at targets 7 to 10 yards away! That is almost spitting distance! At spitting distance I am 100% sure that pits on the target face could send something back towards the shooter.

So my advice, move the target out, and learn something called sight alignment, trigger pull, and follow through.

First time out with both this target, and the pistol.

Z30x6Xe.jpg



LPe9uBq.jpg


I did better with my K38. The hit probability was around 5 out of 6 at fifty yards. The less recoil, the less flinch!
 
I have a little range at my house with several circular plate/gong style steel targets, as well as few cheap Champion .22 diamond-shaped pop-up targets. Some of the small plates are rated for .22 only, but I do have a few 3/8" AR500 plates that I occasionally shoot with 9mm and 300 BLK sub-sonic. I have all of the gong style targets just hanging from paracord, so they are not angled downward at all, and free to swing. My question pertains mainly to shooting the the AR500 plates with centerfire ammunition, and assuming the recommended safe distance away, is it safe for these to be hanging vertical, or should they be angled downwards (20-degrees or so) similar to a fixed target? I've read mixed reviews. Thanks for the help.
I was very reluctant to switch to steel targets, I did lots of research and found what I consider the best information on shootingtargets7.com. They suggest hanging them and at an angle I will not shoot pistol no closer than 15 yards and rifle no closer than 100 yards I have not been hit with anything yet. I have seen some targets for sale that are not ar500 like advertised be careful where you buy yours.
 
Your design looks just like my first iteration. Here are some comments based on my experiences:
1. You may want to replace the cross bar with wood 2x4 ...the pipe will bend eventually. (Highwild AR500 2x4 & Pipe Target Stand Bracket Kit | Targets Hanger). There are similar brackets for the legs that allow electrical conduit for the legs.
2. I found that if you are using electrical conduit for the legs, they will be damaged and have to be replaced UNLESS you slide wood dowels into them....that reinforces them without adding much weight.

What causes the cross bar to bend?
 
Do you think this is as much of an issue with the downward angle like you can see in my photos above? Most of my 3/8" targets will still be shot mostly with 22, I just like having the option to shoot them with larger calibers on occasion. I have yet to have any issues shooting these with 22 when they were hanging vertical, so assume it's only safer now.
I don't, and angling the targets is very good idea. Never realized how many 22 bullets were zinging about till took off my ear muffs. Another consideration is to place something to keep the deflected bullets from ricocheting off the ground. Our targets get heavy use and the dirt gets blown away revealing harder things underneath. We use discarded conveyor belts to hang the targets and underneath the targets.
 
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