Steel Shot for personal defense?

[lbmii]

Yesterday I bought a box of 12 gauge 2 3/4 Winchester high velocity #2 steel shot. The box says it has a velocity of 1550 fps with 1 1/16 ounces of shot. This places the power right around that of a full power 1 ounce slug.

The cross sectional area of the 133 #2 pellets works out to be 2.35 square inches. So you have a lot of area and a lot of energy combined together.

I have not tested this round yet. It seems like this would be a good home defense round. At close range it should be completely devastating while loosing its' velocity quicker than lead shot which might be a benefit in a home defense situation.

Any thoughts on steel shot for close defense?

Will steel shot harm the fixed modified choke on my Mossberg 590A1? The barrel has nothing marked on it about steel shot.

 

[45crittergitter]

Not as good as lead, or especially Hevi-Shot. Fiocchi or somebody has some new high velocity 2.75" lead loads that are very fast. It's possible that steel could bounce back at you like a BB will when it hits something hard. Steel should be fine in your Mossberg.

 

[mnrivrat]

Steel is too light - looses energy way to fast ,which means poor penitration on larger animals.

I wouldn't recommend it for self defense.

 

[Preacherman]

Steel rusts... so after you'd shot the BG, he'd sue you for chemical warfare!

 

[sm]

mnrivrat - nailed it with:

Steel is too light - looses energy way to fast ,which means poor penitration on larger animals.

NILO* conducted these test many many years ago, as did Brister and others.

I have used Steel on Waterfowl - gimmee Bismuth , thankfully approved for waterfowl. I refuse to use Steel now Bismuth is approved.

* Olin spelled backwards as in Winchester.

When the 'winds of change' were being discussed [ non toxic and steel being the favorite] I did in fact use .30 and .33 steel pellets to make my own "buckshot" loads... NILO was testing....

From MY testing,especially the testing I did with Steel Shot, hunting, and such....gimmee a slug for "varmits" - 2 legged or 4 legged. Granted 00 has a place....Slugs work from contact "on out".

Steve , with 1 slug in the chamber, safety on and 4 slugs in the mag as I type in my apt.

 

[lbmii]

I don't know guys. The energy of this steel shot load is right up there with full power slugs. It is just much more spread out. Not much penetration (I would guess in the 6" range for individual stray pellets in ballistic gelatin.), but it should leave a massive wound. The fact that steel is somewhat less dense than lead would make it lose velocity faster thus reducing its' lethality down range caused by any stray shots. Remember I am talking about home defense here.

Compare 1 1/16 ounce of #2 steel shot with a 1 once lead slug. If they both have about the same velocity I really think the #2 steel will have much better stopping power than the slug at close range. Plus its' power will dissipate away much faster than the slug.

 

[sm]

Well - I have always been a bit of a Rebel -

I don't 'believe' everything I read - I suggest folks understand and apply this to things I type or say as well.

NILO did testing as I mentioned. I respect Olin, Brister,Baker, others...I personally listen to and respect their findings.

I also know ME - I had to test some stuff for myself. I was curious and was part of MY learning curve. I learned early that what is on paper does not always apply to real world. We didn't have many folks doing gelatin testing either. I shot Dirt , Mud and Critters....I still do.

So...I shot Critters , be it hunting, Critter control , or defense - like a 80# rabid dog. You know a 80 # rabid dog will continue his attack after being shot with 2 rounds of 00 buck? He will. A 60# dog will continue as well with "homemade steel buckshot loads too spitting out at ~ 1300 fps), I literally dropped the shotgun and went with 45ACP FMJ ....I had an Immediate threat to stop and the steel wasn't working. 230 gr between the eyes - DRT. Real Happy I learned to shoot on my back , because I had 80# of mean and ugly taking a leap at me....shoot, hit roll and shoot to make sure. Get the heart rate a bit.

Critters and varmits ( no matter how many legs) Don't KNOW they are "supposed" to react a certain way when shot with ammo. No matter what the box , the magazine, gun writer said....it don't always work as "written".

I forgot to empty a coat pocket once. Yes 00 buck will stop a Greenhead DRT at 25 yds over dekes. A slug will DRT one that turned on afterburners AFTER taking two hits of Steel Shot. I was the guy whose duty it was to back up folks....oops. Well a slug works at 37 steps. [ Boom, Plop, damn]. Well ...at least the third shell in my gun was ...err..."correct".

I go for reliability , POA/ POI , shot placement for everything, no matter the platform. I gripe about gun fit to shooter, basics and fundamentals. I make a fuss over not reading what a Shotgun bbl or choke is marked - but What it ACTUALLY does by testing.

I have some Buckshot loads around here.

I perhaps am one of a few that thinks a Shotgun loaded with nothing but Slugs for serious situations, hunting critters and varmits is the best set-up.

I can use these from contact to "out yonder". I don't have to transition loads and take a chance on operator error. If I need to shoot through a windshield, provide cover fire "out yonder" I can....

I have responsibilites - To make a ethical clean kill on deer and such, to stop and immediate threat if I or someone else is "in fear of life".

A Crazed BG high on dope, drunk, looking at 12 bore and keeps coming....that critter rabid or has the abilty to do me physical harm [ or say like H&H encounters] needs to be put down - NOW.

I don't want to get shot with any loading...not even from a BB Gun....If I'm behind the gun, I shoot for ethics, or "in fear of" .

Told you I was a rebel.

 

[lbmii]

I went to the range today and did some test on a variety of different shot shells.

I tested the Winchester Xpert steel shot 1 1/16 ounce #2 birdshot advertised at 1550 FPS.

It had a velocity average of 1500 FPS from my 20" barrel.

I shot it into a water soaked phone book from 7 yards. It created a large surface hole with a lot of stray shot holes all around it. The majority of major damage was in the first 1 1/2 inches of the phone book. At 3 inches shot was starting to stop and by 4 1/2 inches the majority of shot had stopped. The wet phone book was about 5 1/2 inches thick and a small amount of shot did exit out the back.

The photo below does not show the damage very well.

 

[lbmii]

Here is a photo of the last 1/2 inch or about 4 1/2 to 5 inches into of the phone book. After being hit by 1 1/16 ounces of #2 steel shot at ~1500 FPS.

As you can see most of the shot has stopped well before this point and damage is minimal.

 

[only1asterisk]

I have seen a very striking display with small squares of sheet metal shot with steel, lead, bismuth, anf tungsten shot (BB?). Range was about 25 yards IIRC. The steel panel had marks, but no dents. The lead and bismuth had dents. The tungsten was full of holes!

There is no reason to choose steel while lead is available.


David

 

[lbmii]

In contrast I shot a dry phone book with a 1 ounce Rottweil Blitz slug. The velocity tested out at 1478 FPS from my 20-inch barrel.


The slug just flat blew the phone book away. A large volume of phone book confetti flew in the air and landed all over the backstop. A large clump of sod and mud was blown into the air from the backstop.

Exit Hole


Just a note: I left the house and forgot to take any Winchester Slugs with me. Winchester slugs test out at about 1540 FPS from my 20 inch barrel.

 

[sm]

Should have seen that greenhead I hit with that 1oz slug ...

 

[lbmii]

I have some more tests to show not involving steel shot but I think it would be better to start a new thread to show those results. I did test Wal-Mart bulk pack 3 Dr EQ 7 ½ Birdshot and will post those photos to that particular thread.

How valid are wet phone books? I do not know. They do give a three dimensional view and they do give some method of comparison between different rounds. It is also something that one can rig up by oneself. I gathered up a bunch of old phone books at work and placed them in a trash bag, filled it full of water and let it all sit for a week.

The tests seem to give mixed results on the whole question of using fairly large size (#2) high velocity steel bird shot for home defense. It did create a big hole but it was fairly shallow. A side shot hitting the upper arm and chest of a large muscular opponent or a gut shot to a big obese opponent might not produce as good of results as desired.

However the photos do not give the damage good justice. We really are talking about a lot of energy and the phone book was indeed blasted quite thoroughly. I have no doubt that this round when fired at COM would produce very rapid one-shot stops most of the time. The lack of penetration is both good and bad in a home defense situation.

On another thread I will post some photos on #4 and #7 ½ lead birdshot and post some photos on single ought buckshot (my current home defense round of choice).

The Wal-Mart bulk pack test can be found here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96290

 

[cracked butt]

Steel shot is very poor ammunition for shooting large waterfowl, I certainly wouldn't want to use it on a big critter.


I shot some remington heavi-shot last week and it penetrated a particle board target backing that I was using for patterning, where larger steel shot either stuck in the board or bounced off.