Stiff KISS for wife?

[OC-Trainer]

Any suggestions?
There is a slight possibility for coyotes, but no cougars etc. This is a big city but we are on the very edge of it. Her work location is 'concrete jungle' but 5 miles away to our house is in unincorporated county land and we do see coyotes.

Thanks, Dan...Happy to help!

Based on your concerns and the type of potential scenarios you are primarily concerned with, you are going to want a different type pepper spray.

Here is what I'm thinking - CA law permits pepper spray up to 2.5 oz. Normally, this would be more than enough to handle potential day to day threats. However, with an extraordinary event like you are describing (potential riots, multiple aggressors, both 2 and 4 legged), it would be prudent to carry more since this is going to be a first line defense tool.

Bear spray is the loop hole. Even the smaller sizes are roughly 8oz. Bear spray is permitted in all 50 states. It is essentially the same size as what LE uses for riot control. Because of the threat of coyote, bears, feral dogs, whatever, it is totally plausible to carry it in this type of pack. If she happens to have to use it on people under these extraordinary circumstances, because of a last ditch type of scenario, the risk of any kind of legal ramifications are slim to none.

Regarding the legalities: Bear spray is just pepper spray with an EPA registration. And that is why it carries the federal guidelines and warnings. Generally speaking, the formulations are exactly the same as what is used on humans. I am not a lawyer, so I can't give legal advice, but I can tell you that there is precedent when it comes to bear spray being used on humans. To my knowledge, there has never been a case where bear spray has been used defensively (keyword) against another human being, where the sprayer faced any legal ramifications.

So, my first choice would be bear spray. It is what I carry every single day. If you wanted to go a different route, let me know and I'll give you my second favorite option.

 

[bubba in ca]

a 12 inch machete and a leatherman tool.

In many urban areas, in an earthquake it would make sense to seek shelter with other normal people rather than risk walking home. Have cel, water, flashlight, knife, and maybe a space blanket.

 

[danez71]

You guys raise a couple points consider. Maybe a small size bear type spray might be worth it.


OC,,,Yes, please suggest another that is more of the normal, smaller, hand held size.

And what's your thoughts in regards to the style you hold like a TV remote vs the traditional style that you hold like a small spray paint can vs the style like Pepper Blaster posted earlier that you hold more like a gun?



About the knife again..... I normally favor straight edges for almost everything.

Is there something I'm missing that should make me really consider a serrated edge or combo edge?

 

[hso]

Is there something I'm missing that should make me really consider a serrated edge

Yes

Since the knife isn't intended for skinning or delicate use and the edge won't need to be maintained the serrated edge goes through fibrous materials very effectively on an inexpensive knife compared to paying for a steel type that is best suited to a "toothy" edge.

 

[danez71]

Thanks HSO.

That's why I brought it up.

I tend to just keep my straight edge knives sharp enough to go thru rope etc and I still get the benefits of having a straight edge.

What do you think about a combo edge (1/2 straight half serrated) or something like the duct knife that has straight edge one one side and serrated on the other?

Better to get a dedicated serrated blade or some type of combo?

 

[BLB68]

The new(ish) Mora Rope knife may be worth considering:

http://morakniv.se/en/produkter/rep/

I have another model with the same handle style. Very nice, secure grip.

Also, don't forget Duct Tape.

 

[hso]

I'm an advocate of 2 knives in the particular application of getting home from work in a disaster or emergency.

You must analyze the problems that will be faced and pick the tool that mitigates the problem without cluttering up the decision process with other issues that aren't likely to be faced.

She's not going to clean a fish or skin a cat, but she may need to cut a seatbelt, remove a zip tie or poke a hole in something and any of a myriad number of expedient tasks to get home. Zip ties are most easily removed by twisting the tab or using a pair of "nips". Seatbelts cut with a belt cutter or a serrated edge or a plain toothy edge. An awl or the tip of a small knife or a broad larger knife make good controlled holes in things (pack straps, cans, belts, etc.). "Game" the entire route and possible hazards from point A to B and try to think of all the problems that might need to be solved by something more than sneaker power and then think of the tools that might be needed.

BLB68, nice find on the Mora rope knife.

 

[OC-Trainer]

You guys raise a couple points consider. Maybe a small size bear type spray might be worth it.


OC,,,Yes, please suggest another that is more of the normal, smaller, hand held size.

And what's your thoughts in regards to the style you hold like a TV remote vs the traditional style that you hold like a small spray paint can vs the style like Pepper Blaster posted earlier that you hold more like a gun?



About the knife again..... I normally favor straight edges for almost everything.

Is there something I'm missing that should make me really consider a serrated edge or combo edge?

Sure, Dan.

It sounds like you are describing the Spitfire, by Sabre. I am a fan of this product, but I don't think it would be the right choice for this situation. Not a fan of the Pepper Blaster, and do not think it would be right for this either.

Bear spray is the gold standard of aerosol OC spray. It is the most intuitive to use and its configuration (wide spray pattern, easy to use actuator, & volume) gives it the largest success rate of any OC product. The closer you can get to that in a legal (for your area) unit, the better the chances of success. With that in mind and factoring in the specific environments and scenarios you've described, here is what I would be looking for. In order from ideal, to less ideal:

The largest size you can legally carry, with a conical spray, and a flip top actuator.

UDAP "World's Hottest" - "Jogger Fogger" (1.9 oz)

Fox Labs - "Mean Green" (1.5 oz cone)

Fox Labs - "5.3" (2.0 oz cone)

UDAP "World's Hottest" - "Clip on Commander" (.7 oz)

UDAP "World's Hottest" - "Hot Fogger Keychain" (.4 oz)

If asthma or any pre-existing condition of the lungs is an issue, forget the list above and go with the list below: All have flip tops.

Fox Labs - "Mean Green" (1.5 oz stream)

Fox Labs - "5.3" (2 oz heavy stream)

UDAP - "Clip on Power Stream" (.7 oz)

Hope this helps, Dan. Please let me know if you need anything else.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I live in the Bay Area and have the same situation for myself. Something worth looking into are those fold up commute bicycles. Would easily fit in the trunk. Could have the tires modified so they don't easily puncture. In the event she can't drive, the bicycle makes the trip home much faster. Less time on the street and faster than walking speed reduces risk.

 

[lobo9er]

drop point of the inexpensive variety with a quality steel. She may have to cut a seat belt or help someone out of a car. how much do you want to spend? BUCK, CRKT... lots to choose from. preferably stainless since its gonna be stored longed term.

 

[JShirley]

Sheepdog, alternate transportation is a terrific idea. A bike could work, but another potential small vehicle would be a rechargeable electric scooter, like this Razor E300. Something with a very small wheelbase should have a much better chance of getting through, even if the highway is mostly blocked.

John

 

[kitsapshooter]

In the circumstances under discussion you should plan on other, and possibly more arduous and lengthy route home. A good belt knife with a belt of some type would be in order. But as mentioned that ability of the knife should fit the requirements of the trip. But it should always be as sharp as possible. A dull knife is dangerous.
I recommend a simple knife sharpener for the bag. A few swipes to be sure your ready before your trek starts will make you a lot safer.

 

[C0untZer0]

I'm an advocate of 2 knives in the particular application of getting home from work in a disaster or emergency.

It's funny you should bring this up, I have a Condor Woodlaw in my bag, but I don't think it's really any good for chopping, but most likely the chopping I would be required to do would be through thorny brush. I think a long machete would be best but I'm not sure about strapping a long machete to my GHB

 

[danez71]

This is getting more and more like SHTF and I'm really not wanting this to get shut down.


Addressing some of the recent comments/suggestions...

My wife has ridden a bike in 20 yrs and isn't going to start now. Same with the scooter.

She'd be much more likely to hurt herself on either than get mugged or heat fatigued. There is no sense in introducing more danger to her.


Also, while its a 5 mile trip home, about 1/2 of that is up a hill that about a 5%grade. My experience is that the electric scooters don't stand a chance and I doubt the little gas, weed whacker powered scooters will either.

I have about a 23 mile distance home on the most direct route. So I scooter could be in my future. Other than being out of shape, Id have some fun pop'n wheelies and bunning hop'n over the downed power lines


In regards to an alternate route, that is something Ive been considering. All of her alternate routes have basically the same obstacles - Over or under a freeway and railroad tracks - Same obstacles, just another block or 2 down the road.


Someone mentioned to evaluate what is needed for the journey. That's what I'm doing and that's why I'm not entertaining machetes etc. Given the terrain and, in the hands of my wife, it would be useless, if not a hindrance.




Not counting the pepper spray, 1st Aide, scissors, shoes, water, gloves, some paracord, flashlight, other doodads etc....

I thinking so far, Knipex mini bolt cutter (works as a club too ), multi tool with pliers (probably needle nose style), one of the serrated knifes below.

I may possibly add a straight edge (either folding or fixed) and possibly some type of pry bar but I don't want this to get heavy, at all.



Can someone help me understand why one of these would be better than the other?

They both say "Fixed blade serrated utility knife for cutting rope, nylon and fiber.", and both are stainless.

I'm actually leaning towards the Companion serrated because its thicker and about a 1/2" longer.

They appear to have the same exact serrations.


Mora Crestline Rope Trade fixed blade.
**Blade Thickness: 0.08 in (0.2 cm), Blade Length: 3.6 in (9.1 cm), Total Length: 8.25 in (20.9 cm), Net Weight: 4.0 oz (114 g)

https://www.amazon.com/Morakniv-Com...=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=MORA+CRAFTLINE+ROPE+KNIFE


Mora Companion Serrated Fixed blade
** Blade Thickness: 0.10" (2.5 mm), Blade Length: 4.1" (104 mm), Total Length: 8.6" (219mm),

https://www.amazon.com/Morakniv-Com...=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=MORA+CRAFTLINE+ROPE+KNIFE


And if I decide to get the Companion Serrated, I may very well get the Mora Serrated Rescue/Safety version that has a blunt tip.

https://www.amazon.com/FT01464-Comp...06701&sr=8-1&keywords=Mora+Companion+F+Rescue




Also, can someone recommend a light weight scissor that will cut thru the 3-4 layers of blue jeans cuff?


Thanks again for all the input. I'm really trying to keep this tool/knife/pepper spray oriented and not BOB, SHTF, in general.

 

[hso]

What's the paracord for?

What would the bolt cutter be for?

Look at the blade thickness. It will answer your question on preference on the Moras (pick the thicker). You may need a point so why consider the blunt tip?

 

[danez71]

Paracord... Its so light weight and very versitle. Only maybe 25'ish. (Maybe paracord (innards or whole) is used to fix torn dress or cut jeans before the trek.)

Maybe that or something thicker to hold on to may be a better option for me than her, given my distance to travel, ingenuity, and physical ability.

Bolt cutter - it's really a 8" handle power hinged cutter. Similar to a line man's cutter but with the advantage of the power hinge. Can cut up to 1/4" nails, wire etc and only weighs 13 oz. - Most likely chain link fence as noted earlier if the overpass, or underpass, that crosses the railroad tracks have collapsed. Around here, on either side of the over/under pass, chain link starts and parallels the train tracks as an easment.


I figured the thicker, slightly longer Mora but wanted confirmation.

Possibly the blunt tip because poking holes could be done with the multi tool or, if I decide to include it, the straight edge. I'm not sold on the blunt tip but thought the varying of the tips may be of value (1st aid?) but maybe not.


Scissors? Blunt tip for 1st aid. Cut gauze wrap and, if she has a gash on her leg, to be able to cut a pant leg with out poking herself (or maybe use the blunt tip Mora and forget the scissors?) Thoughts???

 

[hso]

but maybe not

We can't get into med kits, but her job is to get home and not treat other folks. Treating herself with a small kit is as simple as buying a small kit and putting a roll of duct tape in her bag. Anything more complex than can be dealt with with those tools needs more training.

 

[danez71]

hso,

Agreed.

On page 1 I said

A minimal amount of 1st aid (mainly gauze wrap, scissor, tape, wound cleaning,

I'm now more thinking the water will be used to rinse a wound, gauze and self sticking wrap. I wonder if there is a self sticking gauze wrap all in 1 that can be easily torn by hand? If not, gauze and small roll of duct tape.

 

[cdk8]

I've come to really like the SwissTool Spirit. They have a few different models with different knives/tools/holsters/bit attachments/etc., but one of them comes with a tip-less serrated blade. I find this blade to be extremely useful not only when I want a knife without a tip, but when I want to cut fiber or do something that I would prefer not to expose my standard folder to. Given the portability of these, I try to always have one inside of the laptop bag I carry because I always have it next to me wherever I go. The other thing I like is that periodically Amazon will sell them for under $50, and I think the quality is as good as (and maybe even better than) some products I've spent twice as much on.

 

[heron]

danez, I think I found exactly the scissors you're describing; these would go through all clothing, and plastic zip-ties, too, maybe even thin wire:

https://www.amazon.com/Scissors-Par...8-18-spons&keywords=heavy+duty+scissors&psc=1

Pricey, though. In fact these look like something I'd like to have myself. Truth be told, I like scissors better than knives for everyday household uses, especially cutting through that theft-resistant plastic blister packaging that's popular now. Don't even try a knife on that if you can reach a sturdy pair of shears.

Also, in planning the emergency route home, have you looked at good maps? Might be a good idea to memorize best routes as well as Plan B routes and looking at all the possible obstacles.

Hope this helps.

 

[Snyper]

If you want something that makes a good weapon, get an Estwing sheetrock hammer.
Most wouldn't look at it and think "weapon", and it's easier to use than any knife other than a machete.
http://www.estwing.com/drywall_hammers.php

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I'm asking for suggestions for a knife that my wife can keep in a small back-pack in her car.
.
.
.
The purposed/scenario is that she is at work (5 miles a way) - earthquake hits - and she needs to walk home.

I'd say don't over think this. There's also no reason to limit this to a single choice, either.

A decent fixed blade knife with a sturdy, steel pommel would be awesomely utilitarian. You'll have the strength of a fixed blade with a sturdy pommel that can be used to strike with. By "strike with", I'm thinking automobile window glass type of stuff. Sometimes you just need the ability to hammer something until it breaks.

A decent folding pocket knife of some sort. A Leatherman style knife comes to mind here, not just a folding pocket knife. Again, extremely utilitarian.

Having two such knives is really not much extra burden, especially given the uses they can serve in a small, emergency backpack you envision.

 

[cdk8]

Not sure if it is of interest but girlfriend carries one of these


It's an extremely small knife, but is capable of doing things that most small knives cannot. The full flat ground blade grind and the ZDP-189 steel are also nice utilitarian pluses. It took several years before she needed to sharpen it, and she uses it frequently. It's not a defensive folder, but it could be used for that purpose in the worst situation. And because of its compact form factor, it is the type of knife someone is more likely to have on them at any given time versus a larger folder or specific defensive blade. It works well with the little pockets chicks have to deal with as well.

Here's the profile


You can get the base FRN model with VG-10 steel for $20 used, $40-50 new, and it is a great knife. The fiberglass handle/ZDP blade costs a bit more, but she really, really liked the cosmetics of that model.

 

[JShirley]

The Nishijin handles/scales are deceptive. In pictures, they often appear to have small indentions like bedliner. I bought a larger model, expecting the knife to have exemplary gripping ability, due to the rough scales...and was disappointed.

The Nishijin handles are gorgeous in person, but I gave mine away because the handles are too slick for emergency use. I would never suggest using a Nishijin handled knife as a primary emergency tool.

 

[cdk8]

The Nishijin Dragonfly is the knife she will have on her person (versus something else sitting in a drawer or a car.) Between the spine and bottom serrations plus the finger grip molding on the Dragonfly, she's had no slipping issues with them for a wide range of uses (including when wet) and is very happy with it. But with something like a Lum folder, I could see it presenting a big slipping hazard.

Spyderco's first iteration of the limited Dragonfly in glossy carbon fiber during the ATS-55 days looked a bazillion times better than the Nishijin, IMO, and I had one and sold it because it was fully serrated (I regret that big time!) My dream combination would be if Spyderco offered a Dragonfly in their grippy peel ply carbon fiber using a FFG and Super Blue.