Still Can't Decide on Which .223
- Thread starter rjk2475
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Shanghai McCoy
Member
I bought a Savage 11 Predator. Yesterday while testing some loads it was giving me 4 shot one (small) hole groups.
It ain't the fanciest or prettiest rifle but it has proven to be very accurate and was well under 800$ when I bought it.
It ain't the fanciest or prettiest rifle but it has proven to be very accurate and was well under 800$ when I bought it.
VoodooMountain
Member
There are a lot of accurate rifles under $800 if it doesn't include the scope.
Savage 12 at cabelas can often be had for $300.
Savage hog hunter.
700 varmint
700 sps tactical
Ruger american predator
Ruger 77 tactical at cdnn.
I owned a savage 12 in 223 and it was incredibly accurate. Only sold it because I didnt like lugging around a 13lb 223.
I currently own a savage hig hunter in 223 and 308. Both are very accurate as well.
If you are looking for strictly a target rifle I would get one of the savages and build upon it as you see fit. They are a great platform with many aftermarket options available. They are also probably the easiest rifle to modify.
Savage 12 at cabelas can often be had for $300.
Savage hog hunter.
700 varmint
700 sps tactical
Ruger american predator
Ruger 77 tactical at cdnn.
I owned a savage 12 in 223 and it was incredibly accurate. Only sold it because I didnt like lugging around a 13lb 223.
I currently own a savage hig hunter in 223 and 308. Both are very accurate as well.
If you are looking for strictly a target rifle I would get one of the savages and build upon it as you see fit. They are a great platform with many aftermarket options available. They are also probably the easiest rifle to modify.
Creed Bennett
Member
I really like the Howa Mini Action in .223. I have the mini in the 20” lightweight and heavy barrel. Way under $800! Love my Howa’s!
KansasSasquatch
Member
I'll sound silly saying this but I'd put my Savage Edge (same as an Axis) up against any other .223 under $600, as far as accuracy is concerned. The only major upgrade it has is a Rifle Basix triggers. It's not the most refined rifle but it's great in the accuracy department. I won't suggest getting an Axis if you have an $800 budget. Instead I will suggest getting whichever Savage you like best as long as it has an adjustable trigger and comes in short action or mini action, but I'm not sure if Savage makes a mini action.
But I have heard many good things about the Howa mini actions. I've been trying to find one locally to see how well it fits me.
But I have heard many good things about the Howa mini actions. I've been trying to find one locally to see how well it fits me.
Delawarean
Member
I would look at a Howa mini. The Howa action is very good and the craftsmanship is unmatched for the price, IMO.
You could get one for around $400.
Even with the cost of a chassis you'd still be around $800.
You could get one for around $400.
Even with the cost of a chassis you'd still be around $800.
CoalTrain49
Member
Depends on what you want to do with it.
I have two. A mini .223 and a 1500 .223 HBAR. If you want to drive tacks and just bench rest, the 1500 heavy barrel will do that but it's on the heavy side. Just for fun the Mini is hard to beat, very light and would make a good coyote gun.
Savage or Ruger otherwise.
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Reloadron
Contributing Member
I have been giving some thought to a CZ 527 which Cabela's retails out at your $700 price point and includes 1" rings. You are on your own for the optics. I also would not rule out shopping around for a lightly used Remington 700 BDL VSSF which I built my custom 223 around. Any of the other suggestions would likely suit you well also. There are plenty of really accurate 223 guns right out of the box including Tika, Savage, Howa and others. I am just a little partial to CZ because I like the Turkish Walnut stock along with blued steel. I also like the detachable magazine feature. Something I am not fond of is the 1:9.5 twist and I like barrels longer than the 18.5" barrel the rifle comes with. I just would prefer a faster twist like 1:7 or 1:8 to feel comfortable with the 70 to 80 grain bullets. Anyway, in making your choice you may want to consider twist rate and the bullets you plan to shoot more of.
Ron
Ron
FL-NC
Member
I am 100% happy with my Mossberg MVP Thunder Ranch 223. It does 1 MOA or better suppressed, with either 75 grain Hornady BTHP or Black Hills MK 262 (77 gr SMK).
sparkyv
Member
My RAPR in .223 is an absolute and consistent sub-MOA (5-shot groups) tackdriver with several handloads, and prefers heavier pills. I paid $399.99, so if your budget is $800, you can use the left over cash to upgrade your optic!
Legionnaire
Contributing Member
I bought a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .243 for $400 and spent less than $400 having it accurized by a local gunsmith. I'd happily go that route again.
someguy2800
Member
If your talking about a real target/varmint gun, most of these are not even in the same league as something like a savage lrpv or a bvss. For a real target gun 1 moa is unacceptably poor shooting. Any of the savage model 12’s in a laminate stock should get you in the .5 moa range with proper handloads. If you want a target gun, get a target gun.
Now with that being said, I rebarreled my savage 223 bvss to a 6.5x284 because I to got tired of a 13 lb 223.
If I was buying something again I would get something like a Tikka T3 light or mabey build a older Remington 700 with a timner trigger and a remage barrel in a 24” sporter weight to get in the 8 lb range scoped. It would still be giving up accuracy to a big heavy gun like a bvss, but it would be infinitely more useful. Lots of good used Remington 700 varmint builds on the market too.
Now with that being said, I rebarreled my savage 223 bvss to a 6.5x284 because I to got tired of a 13 lb 223.
If I was buying something again I would get something like a Tikka T3 light or mabey build a older Remington 700 with a timner trigger and a remage barrel in a 24” sporter weight to get in the 8 lb range scoped. It would still be giving up accuracy to a big heavy gun like a bvss, but it would be infinitely more useful. Lots of good used Remington 700 varmint builds on the market too.
That is a common question and the responses are always different because everyone has their own favorites... It's kind of like asking 50 people at a restaurant what they want for lunch.... There are many good rifle choices out there but which is the best is pretty hard to prove with so many variables. What complicates it even further is just because my XYZ rifle is fantastic, doesn't mean that the XYZ rifle you buy will be just as good.
In general though, I think that the accuracy of most of today's rifles is so good that what was considered exceptional 20 or 30 years ago is the expected norm today, especially in a caliber like .223. Here are a few tips to keep in mind:
For what you want, accurate target and range shooting I'd get a heavy barrel.
If you want to shoot heavier (longer) bullets get a faster twist rate, like a 1/9 or so. If you want to shoot lighter (shorter), cheaper ammo like 55 gr stuff then a slower 1/12 is optimum but 1/9 will probably be fine as well... In short, a 1/9 will handle the light stuff better then 1/12 will handle the heavy stuff.
Get a rifle with a good trigger that is adjustable.
Stick with several good, established brands within your price range; Savage, Remington, CZ, Howa, Ruger, Tikka. One caveat to keep in mind is that currently Remington is going through some business problems that could potentially impact the quality of the current rifles.
Avoid flimsy stock models. Many rifles in this price range have them and some still shoot very well, especially with heavy barrels, but in general flimsy stocks are a potential negative to accuracy. Many product lines have a cheaper stock model and a similar model with a better stock.
If you stick within these parameters and top it off with a good quality scope you almost can't make a bad choice and will likely have a rifle that will shoot great.
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Here are 2 CZ's you might consider for a start....
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...+527+223REM+THUMBHOLE+GRAY+LAMINATE+1:9+TWIST
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...ts_id/719003942/CZU+527+EURO+VAR+223+25.6+5RD
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...+527+223REM+THUMBHOLE+GRAY+LAMINATE+1:9+TWIST
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...ts_id/719003942/CZU+527+EURO+VAR+223+25.6+5RD
Here are a couple Howas
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_280/products_id/44483/Howa+1500+223+Varmint+w/+Hogue+Stock
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_280/products_id/2395/HOWA+HGR90222++223+HVY+VAR+20+BLK
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411549338
They are a little less expensive but good quality. The stocks are a little cheaper. Howas usually have pretty good triggers, the 1500 is adjustable, not sure if the others are the older style or not... The rate of twist used to be 1/12 if it hasn't changed. I hope this gives you a good start....
crestoncowboy
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I agree that the 12fv in 223 is a great low cost informal target/ varmint gun. I purchased mine thanksgiving week at Cabelas for 369 with a 100 dollar rebate. I have an American in 223 as well as a patriot (but in 300 mag) if you hand load the other two or find the perfect ammo you can get decent accuracy, however the two patriots I have fired (243 +300 mag both synthetic with the factory vortex scopes) were very disappointing at best, very good customer service though. My American is around 1 moa, some groups are much better but not consistent its good enough for groundhogs and its light. The 12 fv is sub moa with everything I've tried. With a monarch 5 20x scope I got from natchezss (another great company) for 50%off (under $350) i have under $650 total counting bipod (absolutely no point getting a great bipod and attaching it to a flimsy stock imho) During load development I fire two, three round groups of all charges, 3 at a time going from lightest to heaviest, then back down. All were under an inch with 55 gr vmax. Many were 1 big 6- round hole so I chose the fastest of those. I even tried 40 gr vmax factory loads I have for other Guns and they were also moa, despite the 1:9 twist. Even with some cheap 55 fmj i was satisfied. As a savage basher I'm impressed with the gun and highly recommend it for your purpose.
As a walking varmint gun its too heavy, I haven't weighed it but the above post of 13lb is likely accurate, perhaps more with my setup. With the 26 inch heavy barrel its long and heavy but doesn't shift with heavy shooting from heat either. Always a trade off
I despise the accu-trigger on any gun, even the "target" version on the 338 lapua, but that's preference and the patriot and American have rip off versions of the same thing. I've not handled a howa so no idea there. The stock is the flimsiest of the three by far, clearly not affecting accuracy but definately worth noting. I can easily wring it sideways by hand and twist it over to the barrel. 100ish more dollars could get that fixed and still be under your budget, but it doesn't bother me and its already quite heavy.
Bottom line is the 12fv is the best I've seen for under 800 (or even 1000 dollars) for informal target and range shooting. Most of my guns are much higher priced rifles, they look better, feel better, etc. But I don't think I'd bet any money on any of them out to 223 distances against the 12fv
As a walking varmint gun its too heavy, I haven't weighed it but the above post of 13lb is likely accurate, perhaps more with my setup. With the 26 inch heavy barrel its long and heavy but doesn't shift with heavy shooting from heat either. Always a trade off
I despise the accu-trigger on any gun, even the "target" version on the 338 lapua, but that's preference and the patriot and American have rip off versions of the same thing. I've not handled a howa so no idea there. The stock is the flimsiest of the three by far, clearly not affecting accuracy but definately worth noting. I can easily wring it sideways by hand and twist it over to the barrel. 100ish more dollars could get that fixed and still be under your budget, but it doesn't bother me and its already quite heavy.
Bottom line is the 12fv is the best I've seen for under 800 (or even 1000 dollars) for informal target and range shooting. Most of my guns are much higher priced rifles, they look better, feel better, etc. But I don't think I'd bet any money on any of them out to 223 distances against the 12fv
Bottom Gun
Member
Get something you won't feel the need to upgrade later. For me, it was my Sako Vixens but I would consider a Tikka as well.
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