Stocks for Scope vs Iron sights

[PWC]

There is a thread here asking about factory rifles not coming equiped with sights. In the discussion, someone made the point that factory rifles, now, don 't have the long time drop at the comb and heel that for years was standard. Makes sense to me. I know "standard" is only a starting point for how folks begin.

Now, my question is...does anyone have a drawing/picture that shows stock dimensions for "standard", not custom, STOCKS for bolt action:

1. Iron sighted
2. Scoped, disregarding the the bzillions of rings and heights
3. Prone

If you give me dimensions in paragraph form, I'll have to try to translate that to a drawing (I can only draw stick people). Hopefully, someone will have a chart or drawing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[9x56MS]

Book of the rifle by Jack O'Connor plenty of illustrations.

 

[MistWolf]

Search for the dimensions for a Garand, M14 or 03-A3 C stock. I find they work best for me using iron sights.

 

[jmr40]

The idea is for the stock to align the eye with the sights. Most Iron sights are roughly 1/2" above the barrel. Most scopes are 1 1/2" above the barrel. The term is "drop". If you were to turn the stock upside down on a table the back of the stock meant for iron sights would be quite some distance from the table since it has more drop. A stock designed for scopes will be much closer to the table.

This is actually a compromise stock designed to be OK with either scopes or irons. There is some drop, but not as much as on many.




Notice how the top edge of this stock is straighter keeping the shooters head higher to see better through the scope.



And if you want to use really high scopes something like this.

 

[earlthegoat2]

It’s all relative.

My head size and face shape make iron sight type stocks perfect for scope use.

Alternatively, some stocks are unusable in any sighting system like a Ruger 10-22. I typically need extra tall rings for those.

 

[chicharrones]

Whenever I'd be researching a rifle that I couldn't get my hands on, I'd take images from the 'net, size them to equal scale, then overlay them.

I seemed to have deleted many of my images, but happen to still have one. Both of the rimfire guns below came with iron sights, but one of them was intended for scope use more than the other.

View attachment 981856

 

[MistWolf]

The idea is for the stock to align the eye with the sights. Most Iron sights are roughly 1/2" above the barrel. Most scopes are 1 1/2" above the barrel. The term is "drop". If you were to turn the stock upside down on a table the back of the stock meant for iron sights would be quite some distance from the table since it has more drop. A stock designed for scopes will be much closer to the table.

This is actually a compromise stock designed to be OK with either scopes or irons. There is some drop, but not as much as on many.

View attachment 981644


Notice how the top edge of this stock is straighter keeping the shooters head higher to see better through the scope.

View attachment 981646

And if you want to use really high scopes something like this.

View attachment 981651

It's not about the drop. It's about the comb height. Some stocks have a high comb and a lot of drop- like the California stocks Weatherby used.

 

[Offfhand]

If someone wants to pursue it: there are excellent full size drawings of stocks, with dimensions, by Alvin Linden and Jerry Fisher, both are legends in the custom gunmaking trade and masters of the classic style. I consider Linden's dimensions about right for open sights and Fisher's right for scope. Linden is longtime passed but his drawings can be found with his book on stockmaking, look for it. Fisher, who is still active last time I saw him, sells his separately, along with his stockmaking tools.

 

[Nature Boy]

Midway has Jerry Fisher stock drawings, scaled 1:1

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1006480011

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

The word standard can be applied in different ways by different manufacturers. Steyr introduced the MCA stock as one of their standards to allow use with both iron and optic sights. I'd almost bet money this isn't the sort of 'standard' stock you have in mind:



Likewise, you can rule out the entire 'California School' of stock design (Jeff Cooper once referred to this as 'baroque'), best represented by early Weatherby and Winslow rifles. These became a weird kind of standard for quite a few aspirational midcentury shooters, and were inappropriate for use with irons due to the usual comb height:



(BTW, the gaudy stock on the left belonged to John Wayne. Slim Pickens owned a pretty wild Weatherby too as I recall)

Probably the sort of 'standard' that would fit your notion can be found on pre-WWII hunting rifles, such as the Winchester Model 70 or DCM '03 Springfield sporters:



I don't have either one of those, but I do own a pair of late-1940s Husqvarna Mauser sporters that had stocks well-suited to iron sights:



I've got scopes mounted on both, but the one without the Schnabel forend tip (.270 Winchester) came from the factory with D/T holes for a receiver sight as well as open sights. The stock with the Schnabel (8x57mm) is a compromise that works a bit better with a scope but is still very usable with the factory open sights.

Iron sight suitability comes down to comb height relative to the sight axis added to the shooters facial dimensions. If you get that calculated properly, you can do lots of different things to the rest of the stock.