Strange Bedfellows

[Gray Peterson]

I'm not a "Bible thumper" or "ilitarate red neck" gay basher, or homophobe, or any of the other names that are brought up when some one doesn't agree with the homosexual lifestyle. I may have a son or daughter someday who is gay and will I have to accept that.

That can always happen. Remember the difference between a "lifestyle" and an orientation. Do I agree with what the typical gay community "deals" are, like gay sex clubs, and whatnot? Hell no!!!

Before this turns into a debate, and before anything gets out of control, I will keep religion OUT OF IT.

I've debated many a time with people who claim that homosexuality is a choice. They quote stuff from the Family Research Council, and other places that have publicly stated funded "research" for the purposes of their propaganda. That's like the Brady Campaign's policy of using biased research, like the Kellerman study and the 43/1 ratio.

Simply enough, I hope all of you realize that biased research on either side is amoral, no matter how good the "cause" is.

 

[Gordon]

Lonnie, Just one question: since I have anarchist leanings and am some what to the right of Ghengis Khan politically my religion is my only restraint and guideline. What exactly would restrain you from infringing on others following a "Pagan" belief system. What part of you generates the KINDNESS which is one of the few human characteristics worth having.

 

[Trisha]

Gordon, I've sent you a pm - it'll help keep this thread on-topic.

Trisha

 

[pax]

... i dont have to be flamboyantly straight, so it'd be nice if out of common courtesy everyone else could refrain from being flamboyantly whatever as well. ...

That's actually not possible.

If you go out in public with your (wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, significant mammal), your behaviour toward the other speaks volumes about your relationship with them.

I'll bet five dollars that if you're married, you have occasionally held your spouse's hand in public.

pax

 

[nualle]

Keith very generously suggested:

...let's put our money where our mouth is and contact the Pink Pistols and simular groups and invite them over!

Thanks for the thought but no need... we're already here. And I, for one, like the current forum organization just fine. I'd rather have generalized topic areas that have room for the topics that are near&dear to me than cordoned-off "home base" ghettos, IYKWIM.


Gordon asked an interesting question:

What exactly would restrain you from infringing on others following a "Pagan" belief system. What part of you generates the KINDNESS which is one of the few human characteristics worth having.

I describe my religion as "heathen" (see sig). As part of my religious outlook, I view certain of my ancestors (both lineal and cultural) more or less as Catholics view saints. I figure that's near enough to "Pagan" to take a crack at your question.

In answer, I am reminded of a quote from the movie "Amistad." Sengbe (played by Djimon Hounsou), said something along the lines of "At this moment in time, I am my ancestors' entire reason for being." Personally, I gain incentive to act honorably from thinking of what my honored ancestors might think of what I do. I also recognize that each and every person has a crowd of ancestors behind them, reaching back farther than human memory—certainly farther than the vogue of this or that set of religious ideas. I dunno about other folks, but that thought has made me hesitate, given me a little perspective, and caused me to moderate what might otherwise have been an immoderate reaction. Does that count for the kindness you mean?

 

[Dave Markowitz]

IMO, RKBA activists should reach out to minorities, since we need all the allies we can get. And I speak as one myself, being Jewish. The vast majority of Jews I've known have been socially conditioned to be antis. Somehow my dad escaped that mindset, so I've been rabidly pro-RKBA since I was little. And some of my fellow Jews are able to be awakened, if you nudge them in the right direction.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I am glad to see the gay community coming on board, because as stated above they are politically active--much more so than the average gunny. I can't think of any group that would vex Pelosi and Brady more than gun toting gays. Just gotta love that.

Though I practice the Christian ethic, Maslov sets the example for me as to how this can be done--intrinsic (coming from within) rather than extrinsic (influenced from outside). I will treat all people with tolerance as long as they respect others, not just me.

Flamboyant behavior gets the cold shoulder. Individuals who are looking for attention are a turn off whether swish gay or just wanna-be-center-of-attention-drop-dead-beautiful women. I have no time for any of them.

However, if an individual of any persuasion wants to spend some constructive time on the firing line I will be the first to share my meager knowledge, on line use of my firearms for instruction and unlimited quantities of ammo.

 

[Betty]

I think it's a great thing that gays are interested in firearms and self-defense. The more people realize that discriminated groups aren't going to kick back and get trampled over, the better. That's more people who won't beat up on gays or murder one, because they'll fear they're armed and will defend temselves.

Saw a man in a brand new car with the tell-tale rainbow license plate sticker - someone had scratched a "very foul slang term for gay" in big letters on his trunk. It made me wonder - is the person who did this going to gather up a few buddies and wait for this guy to walk to his vehicle next time? What's going to happen if the victim is unarmed? Armed?

 

[Gordon]

This is great. I personally dont think its my business what your sex orientation is or your belief system-only like the "gratefull Dead" lyrics said "are you kind".

 

[sgtredleg]

Interesting Dialouge; (did I spell that right ?)

Iv'e been an ardent supporter of the 2A for years, and indeed am a Freedom activist.
I believe that 2A is ESSENTIAL for ALL people to maintain Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. And that it is in their best interest to aggressively restore that Bulwark of Individual Freedom.
That said, I can't accept the Homosexual LIFESTYLE (or the unfaithful Heterosexual for that matter ) as a wholesome, reliable ally in what I view as a war on Individual Freedom.
I'm sure I'll be flamed on this one, So be it.
If nothing else this thread has caused me to re-evaluate my priorities, it is time I break out the "Good Book" again.
Later All it's been fun,

 

[nualle]

sgtredleg said:

That said, I can't accept the Homosexual LIFESTYLE (or the unfaithful Heterosexual for that matter ) as a wholesome, reliable ally in what I view as a war on Individual Freedom.
I'm sure I'll be flamed on this one, So be it.

No flame. Just this: What you accept or don't accept isn't what matters. What matters is what you do about it.

You don't find me wholesome or reliable? That's fine. I'm not too hurt by that. Who knows... I may feel similarly about you. We are nonetheless allies in the struggle for freedom. That remains the case until one of us starts working toward some other goal than freedom.

 

[Keith]

I see what you mean by creating a "ghetto" with a new area. That wasn't my intent.

It's difficult for new people to "break in" to a forum, especially one like this where those new to guns may feel totally lost at first - I mean, look at the acronyms and other specialized language we use! Add to that the constant flaming of each other, ie: your Glock, 1911, Mouse Gun, etc, sucks! This is mostly tongue-in-cheek and merely considered a form of entertainment, but I imagine it's pretty difficult for a novice to come in here and post some basic questions in the face of what passes for "wit" among dedicated shooters.

I feel strongly that we should cater to new blood in whatever way we can. Perhaps a "no-flame" area devoted to novice gun owners in general would serve the purpose more easily? Call it the "Welcome Aboard Forum" or something like that.

Keith

 

[Tamara]

Keith,

Perhaps a "no-flame" area

The intent of the (admittedly more strict than your typical gun board) polices at THR, and TFL before it, is to create a whole board that is a "no-flame" area where new folks will feel comfortable asking their questions.

 

[Keith]

Tamara, a "no flame" board is a great idea but, look around you... it's not going to happen, not totally. Much of what passes for "give and take" on a board like this, would be seen as "flaming" by an outsider. The forum (and users) do an admirable job of keeping things civil, but some friction is inevitable. I mean, just mention Tupperware to a Glock owner, and... well, you know how THOSE people are!

I think an area devoted to "the basics" has merit, but it is not for me to decide.

Keith

 

[gwalchmai]

Speaking only for myself, I think the 2nd Ammendment applies to all citizens, just as the right to self-defense applies to all people everywhere.

I get the chills, though, when people talk about making sure their elected reps know they are "gay and armed", or they express concern about certain minorities not being represented "enough" at gun ranges. How far a stretch is it for the libs in this country to conclude that RKBA might be a great thing, but only for "protected minorities"?

Far fetched? Maybe so, but I'm old enough to remember when the civil rights movement was devoted to a color-blind society, instead of a vipers' nest of racial and sexual preference.


So yeah, RKBA for everybody, but I'd prefer to see you as a gunowner. Not a gay-gunowner, or a redneck-gunowner, or a black-gunowner.

Respectfully,
g

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

gwalchmai:

Not far-fetched at all. One of the things that has frustrated me about my well-meaning liberal friends is how they will often look the other way when oppressed minorities take up arms, but don't think I should have the ability to protect my rights. On the other hand, the subject being raised can be an opportunity to open up a dialogue. The problem is there has been a history of the gun rights movement being allied with some of the same forces that did the oppressing. there's a lot of distrust on both sides.

 

[gwalchmai]

Malone:

I agree.

Perhaps some of the problems with some of the bad associations was that the gun rights movement was too quick to adopt other ideas in order to get the gun rights support. By keeping the gun rights part separate we may avoid such associations.

I may disagree with someone's choice regarding their sexual preference, but still support their 2nd Ammendment rights.

I don't necessarily have to share someone's position regarding abortion just because I share their position on the RKBA.

I may be completely opposed to one person's stand regarding the legalization of marijuana, yet fully support their CCW position.

We all have a lot of freedoms in this country. One of the most important is our freedom to choose which issues we agree upon.


Respectfully,
g

edited to add: Your point about opening a dialog with the left regarding RKBA is a good one. They may be more open to the idea if it's coming from a "friendly source". Still though, I just have trouble trusting the leftists.

 

[DrDremel]

Most openly gay people live in urban areas. There is not as many gun owners in urban areas. Besides, The problem with aligning with the gay community is that they are a group that does not want tolerance, they want forced acceptance. Tolerance is: I don't agree with you but can live with you. What they want is: I agree with you and think that what you are doing is right. They twist the words of anyone that does not agree with their choice. If you think it is wrong to be gay they call you homophobic, which is a fear of homosexuals. That is not true. They are Heterophobic as they fear not being accepted by heterosexuals. I am not homophobic, my brother in law is gay and I don't hate him or fear him or any other gay person. I feel it is wrong as I am allowed to. The media portrays the entire nation as believing that homosexuality is an acceptable and correct way to live. I believe that most of America agrees with me. Those that own the media are percentage wise, more likely to be gay than other parts of the country. The only way I could see any special benefit from a gay person in the fight for gun rights is if a pro-gun gay person shoots someone that attacks them. I don't want to attack anyone with a gun no matter what they believe so I would not hold my breath.

 

[Duke of Lawnchair]

If you are into shooting, that's great, but I don't care and don't want to hear about your sexual preferences.

AMEN.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

gwalchmai,

You don't agree with legalizing marijuana? Haven't you heard of 'shotgunning' pot? Who says drugs and guns don't mix.

On the other hand, I have a hard time visualizing putting the muzzle of any firearm to my mouth for any reason...

 

[gwalchmai]

Guy - my post was

I may be completely opposed to one person's stand regarding the legalization of marijuana, yet fully support their CCW position.

I didn't say what either of those stands may be.

Resp.
g

 

[Monte Harrison]

About the Pink Pistols website:

This image has Oleg written all over it:

Is it one of his?

 

[nualle]

Good eye. Yes, it is Oleg's. I know 'cause I'm the model.

 

[doseyclwn]

I'm reading this thread, and taking great interest because I have a shooting partner who is so gay that other gay men look at him and go "Damn, that guy is gay". My opinions as to the appeal of the gay lifestyle to me are totally beside the point when it comes to my relationship with him. I may not exactly seek out him kissing his boyfriend, but I don't seek out him eating cauliflower either (which I actually find much more disgusting). And a funny thing, he has yet to graphically describe one of his sexual acts to me, nor I to him. My opinion of his lifestyle should mean little, even if he were to think I'm hot. There are plenty of women I think are hot, and I have yet to show any of them (except the wife) my willie. My friend has never attempted to have sex with my 2 year old son. I routinely leave him in my buddies care.

Plus, he's a better shot than me.

 

[Archie]

Scottgun

My apologies for my mistake.

Now let us get on with overturning these idiotic gun laws.