Street robberies and you - The basics

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wow, that original post is almost five years old. I thought I had read it somewhere before.
 
Good read for sure.

That incident on the other forum about the member getting shot up in a armed robbery was eye opening to say the least.


Thanks for sharing...
 
I was not there, I will not armchair quarterback or judge. This is just something I noticed and got thinking about.

The robber had a revolver and group that was robbed was seven people. This might make someone there realize that the robber had no intention of killing his victims because his gun didn't hold enough rounds to do so without reloading (assuming he is using a common, cheaper revolver and not an unlikely high end 7 or 8 shot).

The armed man really had no choice to fight, because he was armed and going to be searched. While the robber initially didn't have the capacity to kill all seven, allowing the 1911 to be found would change that. So while the armed man might have realized that the robber had no intention of killing them, he had lost all choice what was going to happen. Maybe hiding the gun was part of that, but he didn't get out his wallet as instructed.

No, I'm not saying that you shouldn't fight and acquiesce to criminals. I just think it is interesting that his 1911 meant he could not choose the tactic of complying, and was shot 3 times because of it. Not his fault, he did the right thing as best he could.

The best lesson I can extract from this is the importance of fast, decisive action. Especially being able to draw and hit from weird postures.
 
The moment of opportunity in that scenario was outside. When he was last in line to go up the steps and felt the gun in his back, that was the "GO" signal. Nobody practices even rudimentary H2H skills though...always thinking the gun is the answer to everything. It was a poor choice here and got him shot 3 times for the trouble. Even when he finally decided to make his move, the opening move should have been a strike to make time and room for the presentation of the gun.

With a gun touching you, it takes a fraction of a second to rotate and step into them (well within anyone's reactionary gap). Robber was pre-occupied with walking up the steps, getting him to move faster and probably talking to boot.
 
RX-79G said:
I was not there, I will not armchair quarterback or judge. This is just something I noticed and got thinking about.

The robber had a revolver and group that was robbed was seven people. This might make someone there realize that the robber had no intention of killing his victims because his gun didn't hold enough rounds to do so without reloading (assuming he is using a common, cheaper revolver and not an unlikely high end 7 or 8 shot).

The armed man really had no choice to fight, because he was armed and going to be searched. While the robber initially didn't have the capacity to kill all seven, allowing the 1911 to be found would change that. So while the armed man might have realized that the robber had no intention of killing them, he had lost all choice what was going to happen. Maybe hiding the gun was part of that, but he didn't get out his wallet as instructed.

No, I'm not saying that you shouldn't fight and acquiesce to criminals. I just think it is interesting that his 1911 meant he could not choose the tactic of complying, and was shot 3 times because of it. Not his fault, he did the right thing as best he could.

The best lesson I can extract from this is the importance of fast, decisive action. Especially being able to draw and hit from weird postures.
Click to expand...
Well, armed robbers aren't always known for being rational and counting 7 victims and realizing that his gun only held 6 bullets. Sometimes drunk with power they just open fire.

However I'd like to think that I would've made him react to me and not waited until my holster was discovered and had him standing directly over me before acting.
 
We are often reminded here of how 5 shots is plenty to put down an insurrection.
I sure would not rely on a street thugs math to keep me from being shot.
 
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It is a mistake to ever attribute rational thought to street criminals who may be (and usually are) under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol and who may not even know how many rounds their gun holds, especially as is often the case they just borrowed it from another thug. Two fatal shootings by police officers I witnessed years ago both involved suspects whose actions were simply baffling. One drew a handgun from his rear waistband when a uniformed officer approached him. After he died from a single .357 round to the chest it was discovered that he had only one round in the revolver and that it was placed in the cylinder so that it would have required five dry firings to rotate it around to firing position. The second was holding a female hostage at gunpoint and was surrounded by a half-dozen officers with revolvers, shotguns and carbines. She broke loose out of the line of fire and the idiot raised his gun in the direction of the officers. I think he was hit by about 20 rounds in two seconds.

Criminals are rarely like most of us. They are creatures of impulse who seldom think through a scenario and spend a good deal of their time high or drunk. I can easily see one thinking in his dim-bulb cortex that he could kill seven people with six bullets; after all those dudes in the movies can shoot all day long!
 
The whole point of being armed (CCW in a Jurisdiction that you can be, IE Florida) is always carry.

Me, Glock 19, no safety catch, or grip safety. Not attempting to fault the individual that was shot here, but once you see a gun! The fight is on, most likely hands on. My response would not be whilst being pushed up stairs, pushed with the muzzle of a gun! A round into your spine? Game over.
Any gun play, would be outside, whilst on two feet.
 
Old Guy said:
My response would not be whilst being pushed up stairs, pushed with the muzzle of a gun! A round into your spine? Game over.
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Actually, the closer the muzzle is to you, the faster and easier it is to clear the field of fire. It's just geometry. If they touch me with the muzzle, it would be hard to contain my joy. "Game over" indeed...for them.

Think about it from the other perspective, how close would you be if you had to hold someone at gun point, but also had a strong reason to believe they'd resist? Would you put the muzzle to them so you can't miss or get as much distance as practicable? And to your answer, why?

The answers to these things aren't in forums anyway...they are waiting on the mats in training waiting to be discovered.
 
Browning wrote:
Well, armed robbers aren't always known for being rational,,,
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In my own experience, I have found poachers and robbers to "coldly rational". They know what they are intending to do when they set out on their quest. And, in my experience they know how far they are willing to go to fulfill that quest.

Confronted with the choice between continuing to poach some other time or dying on the spot, I have consistently found them willing to make the rational choice to back off and hunt again another day.
 
hdwhit said:
In my own experience, I have found poachers and robbers to "coldly rational". They know what they are intending to do when they set out on their quest. And, in my experience they know how far they are willing to go to fulfill that quest.

Confronted with the choice between continuing to poach some other time or dying on the spot, I have consistently found them willing to make the rational choice to back off and hunt again another day.
Click to expand...
No experience with poachers, plenty with robbers. Most of the ones I've encountered were both uneducated as well as being stupid and they latched onto that because they had few alternatives.
 
This was a timely post for me. We had a recent incident that happened about two blocks from where I live. I picked it up from CrimeMapping which indicated that the incident was a robbery of an individual that happened at 11:00 at night. Since I walk my dog at that same time every night I called the police department to find out more about what happened. The police officer said that the individual actually set themselves up for a robbery (apparently a call girl got robbed). I told the police officer that I had my CCP but that I didn't carry at night as my neighborhood hardly ever has any incidents! He told me to start carrying. I told him "well I'm already at a disadvantage if the perp has his pistol in hand". The officer's reply was "well you may be able to get off several shots". Needless to say after reading some of the information in this post that my pistol is within easy reach when i take my dog out. My mind set is: I'm going to go down swinging no matter what happens.
 
strambo said:
Actually, the closer the muzzle is to you, the faster and easier it is to clear the field of fire. It's just geometry. If they touch me with the muzzle, it would be hard to contain my joy. "Game over" indeed...for them.

Think about it from the other perspective, how close would you be if you had to hold someone at gun point, but also had a strong reason to believe they'd resist? Would you put the muzzle to them so you can't miss or get as much distance as practicable? And to your answer, why?

The answers to these things aren't in forums anyway...they are waiting on the mats in training waiting to be discovered.
Click to expand...

Strambo.

The mat remark, so true, but at age 81, on stairs? Having spent the years 1960 till 65, as a Bouncer in Liverpool UK, and been in lots of fights (most I started, you win more that way) my thought, use a friend to block my draw! (what are friends for?) I would shoot said robber a bunch, upper chest, neck, face, according to distance, to criminal.
 
The officer's reply was "well you may be able to get off several shots".
Click to expand...

Or if you are alert, you see them coming, position yourself to force them into a bottleneck (say between cars) and have your gun in you hand BEFORE they have theirs.

And that is much more preferable.

Deaf
 
strambo said:
Actually, the closer the muzzle is to you, the faster and easier it is to clear the field of fire. It's just geometry. If they touch me with the muzzle, it would be hard to contain my joy. "Game over" indeed...for them.

Think about it from the other perspective, how close would you be if you had to hold someone at gun point, but also had a strong reason to believe they'd resist? Would you put the muzzle to them so you can't miss or get as much distance as practicable? And to your answer, why?

The answers to these things aren't in forums anyway...they are waiting on the mats in training waiting to be discovered.
Click to expand...


I'm with you!

I "plan" on never allowing an adversary within reach/"jumping distance" of my weapon, unless we're on the blades.

I've seen/practiced way too many disarms of both handguns and blades to allow anyone to close on me.
 
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