Stuck another rifle case! yaaaaay!
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oldreloader
Member
Yep..Been reloading for 40 + years and stuck my first case about a month ago. It was a .223 and I'm sure a poor fitting shell holder was the main contributing factor. I did another 100 last night with NO problems..
The last time I stuck a case was ... umm.. two or three nights ago.
Forgot to swap the shell holder.
I haven't stuck one due to lack of lube in 15 years. Been using RCBS #2 lube since day 1, except for big batches of 223, I use some spray & roll stuff. Forgot who makes it off the top of my head. Don't like that spray stuff as much. Doesn't seem to save any time over grabbing a handful and rolling them myself on the pad.
Forgot to swap the shell holder.
I haven't stuck one due to lack of lube in 15 years. Been using RCBS #2 lube since day 1, except for big batches of 223, I use some spray & roll stuff. Forgot who makes it off the top of my head. Don't like that spray stuff as much. Doesn't seem to save any time over grabbing a handful and rolling them myself on the pad.
Barr
Member
Unfortunately I have been in your shoes before. One thing not mentioned is it is also helpful to ensure the inside of the die is clean. Rubbing alcohol is the easiest.
If you do remove a stuck case with the Lee method (decapping pin) it is helpful to either use a proper dia punch with the collet still engaged or use a bench vise to press out the decapping pin. If you do use a hammer and no collet you can mushroom the head of the pin and cold work the head.
I started loading some 6.5x52mm Carcano for a friend and none of the shell holders (we tried two brands) made properly fit the rim. When full length sizing we could not get the case to come out of the die without ripping the rim off the case. We even tried 3 different kinds of lubricant. We eventually settled for neck sizing only to prolong the life of the case and our sanity.
If you do remove a stuck case with the Lee method (decapping pin) it is helpful to either use a proper dia punch with the collet still engaged or use a bench vise to press out the decapping pin. If you do use a hammer and no collet you can mushroom the head of the pin and cold work the head.
I started loading some 6.5x52mm Carcano for a friend and none of the shell holders (we tried two brands) made properly fit the rim. When full length sizing we could not get the case to come out of the die without ripping the rim off the case. We even tried 3 different kinds of lubricant. We eventually settled for neck sizing only to prolong the life of the case and our sanity.
gypsynolan
Member
old trick i learned about reloading. get yourself a block of parafin(sic) wax; u can buy it at any grocery store in the canning dept. roll your bullets in it when you r reloading. keeps gun from jamming. also easiest/cheapest way to reload is to use LEE loaders.most accurate too.
Centurian22
Member
In the spirit of staying "high road" all I will say about the above post is take it with a HUGE grain of salt and do your own research before following the advice of others.
Out of curiosity gypsynolan, are you talking about rolling just the bullet or the whole cartridge, and how does rolling the bullets in parafin keep the gun from jamming?
Out of curiosity gypsynolan, are you talking about rolling just the bullet or the whole cartridge, and how does rolling the bullets in parafin keep the gun from jamming?
ranger335v
Member
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AA - "In the 40+ years I have been handloading I have stuck one case and that was my fault for the lack of lube on the case. Truth is just about any grease/oil will work, its just that some will clean up easier and more convenient to use.
I have found out that sizing and caseforming is just like any other mechanical operation. If something doesnt work as designed and has to be forced, stop and find out why."
That's the truth. Most complaints about a 'poor case lube' can be traced to poor practice. Seems a lot of people want to lube the upper half of the case (including inside the neck) and that's NOT where cases get stuck! Lube the lower, thicker part of the case well - where they DO stick - and any case lube will do fine. And be aware of the effort needed to drive a case into the die --- if we have to hang off the lever that's a bit of a clue that we just may not have lubed it properly!
It's amusing to read about Imperial not being good for use in SB dies. I've used it to reform .30-06 into .22-250; no SB die will require what such massive case reforming requires! Of course Bag Balm, Hornady's Unique, toilet seal wax rings and a lot of other stuff will work just as well.
I started loading in '65 using STP (relabled and sold as RCBS case lube) and hated the sticky, nasty, messy stuff. Finally tried Lee's white toothpaste lube (a soap actually) and never looked back ... until I tried Imperial. Stayed with Imperial because it's even easier/faster to apply, a little cleaner to use and easy to wipe off with a paper towel.
Obviously the shell holder has to fit or any case will easily get the rim pulled off. I've never found a bad shell holder - or press or die for that matter - but it's certain to happen from time to time so we need to pay attention to our tools when problems suddenly appear.
I have found out that sizing and caseforming is just like any other mechanical operation. If something doesnt work as designed and has to be forced, stop and find out why."
That's the truth. Most complaints about a 'poor case lube' can be traced to poor practice. Seems a lot of people want to lube the upper half of the case (including inside the neck) and that's NOT where cases get stuck! Lube the lower, thicker part of the case well - where they DO stick - and any case lube will do fine. And be aware of the effort needed to drive a case into the die --- if we have to hang off the lever that's a bit of a clue that we just may not have lubed it properly!
It's amusing to read about Imperial not being good for use in SB dies. I've used it to reform .30-06 into .22-250; no SB die will require what such massive case reforming requires! Of course Bag Balm, Hornady's Unique, toilet seal wax rings and a lot of other stuff will work just as well.
I started loading in '65 using STP (relabled and sold as RCBS case lube) and hated the sticky, nasty, messy stuff. Finally tried Lee's white toothpaste lube (a soap actually) and never looked back ... until I tried Imperial. Stayed with Imperial because it's even easier/faster to apply, a little cleaner to use and easy to wipe off with a paper towel.
Obviously the shell holder has to fit or any case will easily get the rim pulled off. I've never found a bad shell holder - or press or die for that matter - but it's certain to happen from time to time so we need to pay attention to our tools when problems suddenly appear.
Funny I've been thing about this about a week. When I started I used spray funiture polish. It seemed to work well on most of the cases but a few were hard to extract & I stuck one. I ripped the rim off & bent the mandrel trying to get it out. I had to drill a hole big enough to get the mandrel out then drill the case thinner then tissue paper to fold the sides & take it out. I then switched to Meguiar's cleaner each.
Meguiar's works great but I got to wondering if the problem was I wasn't getting it on the bottom of the case. I was standing them up & spraying the top. I'm pretty sure that was the problem.
I'm cheep tho & the only use I have for the Meguiar's is reloading so I'll stick with it. My 8 year old started lubing cases for me so must of the mess is gone.
Meguiar's works great but I got to wondering if the problem was I wasn't getting it on the bottom of the case. I was standing them up & spraying the top. I'm pretty sure that was the problem.
I'm cheep tho & the only use I have for the Meguiar's is reloading so I'll stick with it. My 8 year old started lubing cases for me so must of the mess is gone.
AABEN
Member
I have had no stock cases after going to RCBS pump sprayer. I did have trouble with one shoot.
doubleh
Member
I bought a set of Lee shellholders years ago. Some fit great but part of them didn't. I have discarded the .223 holder after pulling the rim off a case . It was just too sloppy a fit. I use RCBS mostly now and every one fits like it should.
I've never used Imperial sizing wax. I did do an experiment with Johnson's paste wax fully expecting to have to remove a stuck case a while ago. It worked great and it is what I use for rifle cases now and haven't had a stuck case with it. It's very little more trouble than the spray. Guess I'll use up my full bottle of spray on tough pistol cases like 44 mag to make the carbide dies slippery.
I've never used Imperial sizing wax. I did do an experiment with Johnson's paste wax fully expecting to have to remove a stuck case a while ago. It worked great and it is what I use for rifle cases now and haven't had a stuck case with it. It's very little more trouble than the spray. Guess I'll use up my full bottle of spray on tough pistol cases like 44 mag to make the carbide dies slippery.
ljnowell
Member
gypsynolan said:
Um......uh..............ok.
centurian22 said:
I'll second that.
scottishkat
Member
I'm with c-latrans sometimes the shell holders are pretty large and the case rims can be small as well. I've had stuck cases with my 222 rem and RCBS case lube-2 works good don't use to much though.
david bachelder
Member
I use RCBS Case Lube-2 and the lube pad, its all I've ever used. Its water soluble and does not feel greasy on my hands. I have never stuck a case and I've used it on 30-06 and .243 cases. I've used it on every case I've ever lubed both rifle and pistol. I never wash it off my finished cases, I'm not sure what happens to it, I guess it just disappears.
It works, its easy, its not messy, and I have had the same bottle well over a year. I don't understand why anyone would want or need to use anything else.
It works, its easy, its not messy, and I have had the same bottle well over a year. I don't understand why anyone would want or need to use anything else.
I think Imperial comes from 2 different sources. One is wonderful, the other aint. Ive been well underwhelmed with it. The fort required for sizing almost any case is 30% higher than most other lubes. Lanolin as high presssure lube is unbeatable. Gives the lowest effort with the most difficult sizing. Its not the most user friendly however. Kiwi mink oil is pretty darn good. Small batch-Lee case lube is great, if you want volume mix w/alcohol in a bag or closed contained and shake cases-100 at a time. Use RCBS properly and you'll never stick a case. Poor match of case holder and rim is trouble with any case. All rims are not created equal, and I dont know why. Ive been lucky over the years and have only stuck about 3 cases. Everyone due to stupid. Ive been lucky that way also as stupid is only allowed at the loading bench every 10 years and it has to be checked out.
OP
OP
1KPerDay
Member
well I'm waaaaay over my quota, then...
BTW I had a close look at the lyman case holder and it SEEMS to fit the rim completely and relatively securely. I compared it to the .380 one from my Lee kit and the lee lets the rim rattle around more.
But the evidence suggests that the rim isn't fully engaged against the curved rear of the case holder. I've ripped the entire rim off a .30-06 with this same setup (different case holder obviously) so I assume it's centered re: die/ram, but since the .223 case had only its sides ripped off it makes me wonder how that could happen.
OP
OP
1KPerDay
Member
BTW I emailed RCBS cust/serv over a week ago; sent via their website form and also emailed a duplicate via personal email. Haven't heard a peep back from them.
PhotoBiker
Member
I jammed a .308 today in my Hornady. I was using the case lube, everything was fine. It sized fine, I removed it, wiped it down, and dropped it my gauge to find it wasn't seating all the way. I decided to put it back in the press, the rim snapped off in the shell holder.
I took a quick trip to the hardware store to create a puller kit (1/4" Fine & 5/16" tap, bolts, bushing, and drill bits). Took about 5 minutes to drill it out and remove it after I got back. This is a case (no pun) where I had all the tools but they were in toolboxes all around the house. I now have a kit with all the correct tools in my die drawer.
I took a quick trip to the hardware store to create a puller kit (1/4" Fine & 5/16" tap, bolts, bushing, and drill bits). Took about 5 minutes to drill it out and remove it after I got back. This is a case (no pun) where I had all the tools but they were in toolboxes all around the house. I now have a kit with all the correct tools in my die drawer.
lightman
Member
To me, thats the nice thing about the RCBS, and probably the other brands, is the box. It stacks and stores well on my die shelf. Lightman
highbrow
Member
The last time I stuck a case was ... umm.. two or three nights ago.
Forgot to swap the shell holder.
I haven't stuck one due to lack of lube in 15 years. Been using RCBS #2 lube since day 1, except for big batches of 223, I use some spray & roll stuff. Forgot who makes it off the top of my head. Don't like that spray stuff as much. Doesn't seem to save any time over grabbing a handful and rolling them myself on the pad.
Been there, done that, more than once.:banghead:
fiftybmg
member
The Hornady one-shot works.
How you apply it determines the result. A vague squirt here and there is not going to cut it. The spray in a bag and shake method is not going to cut it.
For my .223 resizing, I stack the brass in a reloading tray, base down, using every second hole. That leaves gaps between the brass. Then spray One-Shot , once from each side of the tray.
I sized 400 mixed brass in one sitting, with not even a squeak from the sizing die.
Previously, I had used the RCBS spray, and I got many stuck .223 cases. It's not such a great lube, I'll use the rest of it on my pistol brass.
I know the Imperial Sizing Wax is the best lube out there, but I don't have time to individually lube hundreds of 223 cases.
How you apply it determines the result. A vague squirt here and there is not going to cut it. The spray in a bag and shake method is not going to cut it.
For my .223 resizing, I stack the brass in a reloading tray, base down, using every second hole. That leaves gaps between the brass. Then spray One-Shot , once from each side of the tray.
I sized 400 mixed brass in one sitting, with not even a squeak from the sizing die.
Previously, I had used the RCBS spray, and I got many stuck .223 cases. It's not such a great lube, I'll use the rest of it on my pistol brass.
I know the Imperial Sizing Wax is the best lube out there, but I don't have time to individually lube hundreds of 223 cases.
blarby
Member
I think you forgot to have your dies blessed before using them.
I remember that thread.
Bad luck happens- but a little die prep can go a long way.
Sorry for your luck ! All of the good answers have already been given.
I remember that thread.
Bad luck happens- but a little die prep can go a long way.
Sorry for your luck ! All of the good answers have already been given.
March 1, 2013, 12:19 PM #15
rcmodel
Member
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Location: Eastern KS
Posts: 40,209 Quote:
ripped just the two outside edges off the rim
Well theres your problem then.
No kind of lube is going to work if your shell plate isn't pulling evenly clear around the rim.
Same problem I had with the old Herters shell holders.
They didn't fit right.
rc
__________________
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Or all your primers in a glass jar!
Yes RC, I believe you should listen to L. Willis, beyond ripping the case head off or pulling the rim from the case there are two set screws that release the Herter’s shell holder, back the screws our, lower the ram then remove the shell holder, after removing the shell holder remove the die with the stuck case, then, screw the die into the press from the bottom with the case head up.
With RCBS type shell holders, rotate the shell holder until it it can be removed from the stuck case and from the ram at the same time, after removing the shell holder remove the die with the stuck case and reinstall it from the bottom. This procedure/technique allows the press to be used as a holding devise/vise.
Herters and precision shell holders? My favorite shell holder is the RCBS, my opinion? The RCBS shell holder is the versatile shell holders, with the RCBS shell holder I do not need Redding Competition shell holders, I do not need small base dies and I do not need short dies for sizing cases for short chambers. Back to Herter shell holders, I am limited as to what I can do with Herters, they have advantages if the reloader is firing and then sizing his fired cases.
F. Guffey
rcmodel
Member
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Location: Eastern KS
Posts: 40,209 Quote:
ripped just the two outside edges off the rim
Well theres your problem then.
No kind of lube is going to work if your shell plate isn't pulling evenly clear around the rim.
Same problem I had with the old Herters shell holders.
They didn't fit right.
rc
__________________
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Or all your primers in a glass jar!
Yes RC, I believe you should listen to L. Willis, beyond ripping the case head off or pulling the rim from the case there are two set screws that release the Herter’s shell holder, back the screws our, lower the ram then remove the shell holder, after removing the shell holder remove the die with the stuck case, then, screw the die into the press from the bottom with the case head up.
With RCBS type shell holders, rotate the shell holder until it it can be removed from the stuck case and from the ram at the same time, after removing the shell holder remove the die with the stuck case and reinstall it from the bottom. This procedure/technique allows the press to be used as a holding devise/vise.
Herters and precision shell holders? My favorite shell holder is the RCBS, my opinion? The RCBS shell holder is the versatile shell holders, with the RCBS shell holder I do not need Redding Competition shell holders, I do not need small base dies and I do not need short dies for sizing cases for short chambers. Back to Herter shell holders, I am limited as to what I can do with Herters, they have advantages if the reloader is firing and then sizing his fired cases.
F. Guffey
remodel, back to the two set screws, the two set screws were not design to hold the shell holder with the same effort used when the ram is raised, when the ram is/was raised the shell holder set on the top of the ram with no load on the screws, when lowering the ram the screws were the only thing holding the shell holder.
Herters and fit, nothing fit better than Herters, again, my favorite? is brand is RCBS, fits like a shirt, it fits if it touches.
F. Guffey
Herters and fit, nothing fit better than Herters, again, my favorite? is brand is RCBS, fits like a shirt, it fits if it touches.
F. Guffey
Arkansas Paul
Member
Right.
And the easiest way to mow your 5 acre yard is with a push mower.
And the easiest way to cut lumber is with a handsaw.
And the easiest way to start a fire is rubbing two sticks together.
I could do this all day.
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