Stuck Pins

[Middletown]

I am putting this in General because I think the problem could be with any firearm that uses pins for assembly. If Mods think it needs to be moved to Rifle Country please do so.

This is on a Mossberg 151K 22lr semi auto. These were made in 1950 & 51 so the rifle is at least 69 years old. Guns owner is part of my extended family It is not my gun, my task is to clean it up and stop the surface rust. I have seen few guns that were as crudded up. It was left very dirty and then neglected for several decades.

Rest of the pins came out, no problem but these refuse to budge. I started soaking them in CLP a week ago and have been pecking at them a couple times a day since and cannot get either one of them to budge.

The extractor seems to operated freely so if I need to just leave well enough alone I can butt the pin on the receiver really needs to come out so I can reassemble the sear assembly.

Any tricks someone can share?

 

[tark]

Are you tapping on the tapered end?

 

[Mal H]

Right. With the 'V' arrow you included in the image, it appears you mean it should go out in that same direction. Since the pin is tapered at the bottom in the image, that's end you should be tapping on.

[Moving to the Gunsmithing forum, which is the proper forum for this. But, we'll leave a redirect to the thread for several days.]

 

[mnrivrat]

A couple idea's. One is to change direction on driving the pin out. The other is to soak it in Kroil a couple days. Perhaps I will also ad to heat up the area surrounding the pin . By heat up I don't mean hot/hot. I mean warm to warm+. If those ideas are not fruitful I would jig it up such that you can use your vise like a press and try that. If the pin is frozen to the pivotal part , that part may be absorbing the blow and acting like a spring so to speak. rotate that part and see if the pin also rotates. That will tell you if the pin is frozen to that part. If so than place a piece of steel snuggly between the space of the rear ears of that part to prevent the ears from springing inward with the blows and absorbing the energy.

 

[Middletown]

I was just using the arrow to indicate the pins, overkill but the ones and zeros on an image are practically free.

I have been mostly and with more force tapping on the pointed end on the receiver and from the other side on the extractor pin. Haven't been able to get any movement at all.

Edit to add: mnrivrat, Pin is stuck to the inside u-shaped part. I have considered the spring in the action and used a wire brush handle to provide a firm backdrop. I don't have any Kroil but maybe I will get some tomorrow.

 

[mnrivrat]

I was just using the arrow to indicate the pins, overkill but the ones and zeros on an image are practically free.

I have been mostly and with more force tapping on the pointed end on the receiver and from the other side on the extractor pin. Haven't been able to get any movement at all.

. As I was typing my reply I see a couple other replies came in before me. I am not convinced that is a tapered pin because it is a pivot pin, It is possible but if you think about it if it is smaller on one side than the other you would have to make the hole on the pivoting part two different sizes in order for the part to pivot straight. If you have a calipers you can measure the pin on each side.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

On the top one, I would use a nail set punch on the bottom side of the pin as shown. Make certain that the tab into which it is inserted closest to the flat end is solidly supported and do not try to tap it out on a table with any flexing but rather over one of the table/bench legs.

On the extractor pin - how about showing the top of the bolt as well?

Todd.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Looking at my 152 seems to have helped.



I would only drive it out enough to remove the extractor if that's what you're after.

These are usually astoundingly tight so a very good punch and well-held in a vice is key.

Be very certain that is is flush on reassembly.

Todd.

 

[Middletown]

Apache, appreciate the reply. I have a bench block supposed to get here tomorrow. Sunday delivery, we will see. Only driving the extractor pin as much as needed sounds right to me, Thanks!

 

[entropy]

The sear pin is bent. Mic both ends (before the taper on the one side) and tap the smaller of the two. I'm sure you'll find it's the tapered end. It appears the holes are not aligned well.

 

[a5werkes]

The most critical element to removing aged "stubborn" pins is to properly secure the object of interest, i.e. part embracing the pin, in a heavy stable vise, NOT a bench block upon which said part/pin assembly will bounce about with every impact of hammer-punch effort. The punch tip energy must be efficiently transferred to the pin or its exposed end will be uselessly peened and not moved. IF the sound of each impact is not a solid "thud", re-group your set up.

The second element is being fairly certain as to the correct direction to remove said pin from part, a 1950's Mossberg most likely left-to-right expelling direction.

Third element is correct sequence of punch style implementation, tapered pin to get the pin moving a few millimeters, then convert to a proper-sized short shaft hardened punch, std. size shafts will bend / break , to further encourage its movement, complete with standard parallel pin punch.

Kano Kroil is my preferred lubricant, "the oil that creeps".

 

[wiscoaster]

Damn, that's quite the set of punches! Where did you pick those up?

 

[Middletown]

Appreciate all the replies. I haven't been able to find any Kroil oil locally yet. Everywhere we checked Sunday did not have it on their shelves. I am going to get out later today and check a couple other places that are closed Sundays. We did find aerosol can of Liquid Wrench that I put on it but hasn't budged yet.

I very much agree that I am not able to hold the parts firmly enough to get the energy of the hammer to where it is needed. I spent $55 ($30 off sale) of my stimulus check to purchase this vice << https://www.northerntool.com/shop/t...4048?cm_mmc=Housefile-_-RECEIVED-_-707-_-CONF >>. Should be here in a few days. Jaws are Polypropylene so I am hoping that is good for what I am wanting, we will see.

Thanks Again!

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Appreciate all the replies. I haven't been able to find any Kroil oil locally yet. Everywhere we checked Sunday did not have it on their shelves. I am going to get out later today and check a couple other places that are closed Sundays. We did find aerosol can of Liquid Wrench that I put on it but hasn't budged yet.

I very much agree that I am not able to hold the parts firmly enough to get the energy of the hammer to where it is needed. I spent $55 ($30 off sale) of my stimulus check to purchase this vice << https://www.northerntool.com/shop/t...4048?cm_mmc=Housefile-_-RECEIVED-_-707-_-CONF >>. Should be here in a few days. Jaws are Polypropylene so I am hoping that is good for what I am wanting, we will see.

Thanks Again!

While I love my Kroil - I mostly use a mixture of automatic transmission-fluid and acetone for penetrating oil. You'll find all kinds of interpretations on mixture on the internets.

Todd.

 

[BBBBill]

I haven't been able to find any Kroil oil locally yet.

I find mine locally at Fastener Service Company. Machinery supply shops in your area might carry it. The ATF-Acetone mix is good stuff, too.

 

[Dunross]

While I love my Kroil - I mostly use a mixture of automatic transmission-fluid and acetone for penetrating oil. You'll find all kinds of interpretations on mixture on the internets.

Todd.

What ratio of one to the other are you using? I'd like to try it.

Thanks.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

What ratio of one to the other are you using? I'd like to try it.

Thanks.

Most folk like generally 50/50 with any old cheap mercron or dextron ATF. I usually bias a bit higher on the acetone here in Arizona as the fluids will want to separate and require a shaking/stirring from time to time and the acetone can disappear being scared of the Arizona sky-ball-of-death.

Don't worry about having to add acetone when you note it getting thicker for evaporation.

These are my absolute favorites. Don't worry about the cost. Most of mine are well over 20 years old.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...squeeze-bottles/squeeze-bottles-prod1198.aspx

I also love re-using Cholula bottles as they have the end that limits poring but is large enough to easily refill. They also have a large wooden cap that is easy to manipulate one-handed.



Todd.

 

[a5werkes]

Damn, that's quite the set of punches! Where did you pick those up?

Well I don't pay bills being a real gunsmith but I have been a serious firearm hobbyist for 15 years now and accumulated a substantial investment in specific firearm tools. I must have several hundred punches of various types, as each pin deserves its proper mate to remove / install it.

First, buy once / cry once philosophy of purchasing quality tools IF you want the task to appear as a professional was involved and it will often last a lifetime. Second, strike "like-with-like" materials, i.e. use a aluminum punch with aluminum hammer, brass punch with brass hammer etc to preserve your tool investment. The deeper one goes in the rabbit hole of tools, specificity matters to use the correct dimensioned punch / screwdriver etc for the task at hand. Always tape protect the surrounding firearm art to prevent any marring from a slipped punch effort, one will greet you one day and you'll wish you had done it! The Wiha is a USA company (Wisconsin I believe) that has nicely priced German mfg. tools.

There are a lot of gunsmith "tricks" to removing stuck pins; 1. patience 2. proper tools 3. proper preparation, e.g. Kroil or favorite solvent 4. properly securing parts in vises etc.

Here's a partial sample of punches I have, more & more I custom fabricate ones, I am certain professionals have a greater variety.

 

[a5werkes]

...........and a few more.

 

[a5werkes]

..........and some more.

 

[a5werkes]

......and a few more.

 

[Middletown]

a5werkes, Thanks for that!

I am going to wait for the vice which should be here in a couple days, otherwise getting liquid wrench a couple times a day.

 

[entropy]

Nice collection of punches!
I have one left over from when I worked in a feed mill, long narrow one that was used to punch heated dried feed out of roller mill dies. I've used it on cars, guns, and yes even a roller mill die I brought home from the mill, (they make great fire rings) and it's tough as diamond. never bent or scratched it. Wish I had a set of them in different sizes.

 

[Obturation]

There are a million ways to skin a cat and even more to disassemble something that insists on being difficult.
You'll get advice that ranges from the comical to the downright insane . I'll tell you what works for me and what doesn't , it will likely be in direct contrast to what others recommend or exactly the same, either way everyone has an opinion .

First, penetrating oil is nearly worthless . It's good for lubricating threads for easier assembly and not much else. It neither dissolves rust nor does it do anything except catch on fire when it's time to take it apart for real. The kroil cult is likely headed to my home right now. If you doubt me, try an experiment - drop a rusty bolt in wizz-bang magic oil for a month and then take a look, it will still be a rusted bolt- loose oxide will be removed, same as if you used water.

A properly sized punch and a way to support the part is essential. You'll do more damage trying to take it apart than if you just left well enough alone. If you need a pin to come out heat is your friend, be aware that gun parts are heat treated and tempered and over heating will destroy a piece in a hurry so be careful. How you do that is up to you. Wrapping parts you don't want to get hot in a wet towel is one way but there are other choices too. Heat cycles will dislodge stuck parts and cold will work too, if you can cause a difference in temperatures things start moving . a can of computer duster held upside down will freeze parts quick. If you can get the entire thing super cold , the contraction can help "crush" corrosion or at least disrupt it and allow some loosening of whatever sort of yuck is holding it stuck. The part can also be shocked without disrupting temper, like putting the part in boiling water or the oven at 250° and then dropping it in an ice bath. Not perfect but sometimes it's all that needed.

Vibration is your friend. I've used an engraving pencil held firmly against a stuck pin to help it wiggle out, it will leave a dimple and may displace material making it tougher to remove though.

Just recommendations and they may not help but I've been disassembling rotted machines for a living for about 2 decades, oil has never helped me and I've tried them all.

Ymmv as usual. Good luck

 

[EMC45]

For me penetrating oil (Kroil cult here) and heat have done me well. From automotive to gun stuff and everything in between. Heat metal and apply oil. Let it sit and come back to it. Time your time and go slow.