Student Defends Home and Self with Handgun

[HK G3]

Tucson police: Evidence at UA-area double-shooting consistent with self defense
By Alexis Huicochea
Arizona Daily Star
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 10.16.2008
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Evidence in the fatal shooting of two home invaders by a University of Arizona student appears to be consistent with his story that he was defending himself, police said.
The 23-year-old student shot and killed Shontel R. Early, 30, and Wesley O. Fenstermacher, 29, after the two men attempted to invade his home early Thursday morning, said Sgt. Fabian Pacheco, a Tucson Police Department spokesman.
At least one of the invaders was armed with a gun during the incident, which occurred shortly after 12:30 a.m., said Pacheco, who gave the following account:
The student was home alone in the 800 block of East Adams Street, near North Euclid Avenue and East Speedway.
There was a knock at the door and one of the men asked for someone who did not live there.
The student looked past the man he was speaking with and saw another man, who had his face covered and was armed with a gun.
He retreated into his home and grabbed his own handgun, but the men made their way in.
The student called police to report the shooting. When officers arrived they found the men two men dead just inside the doorway.
The student was questioned and is cooperating with police. His name is not being released.
There is no indication that the student is or has been involved in any criminal activity, police said.
Pacheco could not say what the men were looking for or if they had possibly gone to the wrong house.
The case will be presented to the Pima County Attorney’s Office for a determination on whether the shootings were justified, Pacheco said.
Neighbors were alarmed by the events.
Ali Adelmann, a UA sophomore, just moved into the neighborhood this semester. “It really worries me,” the Phoenix resident said. “All we can do is keep our doors and windows locked.”
Jenny Wise also moved into the neighborhood in August. The 19-year-old sophomore said she wasn’t home at the time of the shootings. She had gone to a party and when she arrived home around 2 a.m. she found her street taped off and flooded with police.
“It’s really the scariest thing,” Wise said. “I’ve lived a sheltered life. This seems like a nice little neighborhood. I don’t know what I would’ve done if two guys tried to get into my house.”

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/crime/262693

Thank God that young man owned a gun.

 

[smartshooter.45]

luckily he didnt get shot himself. it sounds like clear cut self defense.

 

[Maelstrom]

it sounds like clear cut self defense.

With one side of the story so far, of course it does. What's the guy going to say, "I shouldn't have shot those two Jehovah's witnesses and planted a gun on them!"

 

[snipe300]

I believe Col. Cooper would have been proud of this man. This sounds like something that could happen in my neighborhood. Live with your gun, friends.

 

[Golden Hound]

You can count on this incident - along with all the others like it - to go TOTALLY UNNOTICED by the national news media. On the other hand, when an insane person kills random people, they talk about it for three months afterwards non-stop and try to use it as an excuse to ban evil guns.

 

[TCB in TN]

If two J-dubs bust into my house at 12:30 at night, I think I might be inclined to defend myself against them as well!

It blows me away how many folks on here have such poor attitudes about self defense shootings. Can't just leave it at if the info given is correct then it is a good shoot. BTW when is the last time we saw a news story give the shooter the benefit of the doubt? It is USUALLY biased against the person defending themselves NOT the other way around.

 

[General Geoff]

Good job on the student's part. Glad he's ok.


I'd be interested to know how many shots he took on each invader, and how long it took for them to fall. Type and model of gun would be nice, too.

 

[poor_richard]

“It really worries me,” the Phoenix resident said. “All we can do is keep our doors and windows locked.”

Obviously, that is NOT, "all you can do."

 

[FieroCDSP]

NEVER OPEN THE DOOR!!! Certainly not after-hours.

Good on the guy for being able to recognize danger and effect his defense. The comment from the other student was a good addition to this story:

“I’ve lived a sheltered life. This seems like a nice little neighborhood. I don’t know what I would’ve done if two guys tried to get into my house.”

Welcome to adult-hood, honey. Good time to realize you are your only hope.

 

[rojocorsa]

Ok, let's say you are a student and you live alone, would it be a good idea to keep a loaded gun by the door? For incidents like these?

 

[jws527]

At least one of the invaders was armed with a gun during the incident, which occurred shortly after 12:30 a.m., said Pacheco, who gave the following account:
The student was home alone in the 800 block of East Adams Street, near North Euclid Avenue and East Speedway.
There was a knock at the door and one of the men asked for someone who did not live there.
The student looked past the man he was speaking with and saw another man, who had his face covered and was armed with a gun.
He retreated into his home and grabbed his own handgun, but the men made their way in.

I was in a very similar situation myself, once.

I was home alone one night during my junior year when there was a series of loud knocks at the front door at about 2:30 am. I had two roommates, but one was staying at his girlfriend's place and the other one was out somewhere else. At first I suspected one of them had come home drunk and had misplaced or lost his keys, but I decided to ignore the knocks since I figured they would be smart enough to call me even if they were drunk. In any case, I wasn't expecting anybody.

The knocks continued regularly for about 10 minutes and then stopped. No calls, so I started to get nervous at that point. I waited a few more minutes and then went throughout the apartment and turned out every single light, and turned up some music in the living area (I did this so I could hide and if necessary ambush in the event of a forced invasion; there were no windows against the hallway and it was a second floor unit - no other access points - so there was no point in trying to convince them that somebody was there). Somebody had walked into our apartment about two months earlier while we were home and stole a significant amount of money and some other items from one of my roommates rooms while he was sleeping, so I had good reason to suspect that whoever it was didn't have my best intentions in mind.

Following that, I went back into my bedroom to wait when the knocking (well, pounding) started again - maybe 30 minutes later. I made the decision to go confront them: since the only effective weapons I had available at the time were close range (knives, mainly), I came to the conclusion that using the steel plated door as a shield against a natural choke point gave me the best chance to physically repel an invasion (granted, had they been carrying guns that might not have been the best decision). That door was the only plausible entry point in the entire apartment. Besides, if it wasn't a threat, then I wanted to put a stop to the damn pounding. I grabbed a chef's knife from the kitchen, hid it behind my body, and looked through the peep hole. Two 20-something year old guys that didn't look very friendly, but neither was wearing a mask or visibly carrying weapons, so I tentatively opened the door.

They immediately started asking me about some guy I'd never heard of, and insisted that he lived there. After a few minutes, the guy in front demanded to see into the apartment so that he could see if it was this guy's place or not. I refused and told him to leave. He then put his hand against the door as though to press it open a bit and took a step onto the doorway, at which point I braced myself against the door and told him in no uncertain terms that if he took one more step, it would be his last. His eyes got wide, he called me a "crazy mother****er" and hastily beat a retreat into the hallway and left for good.

I'll never know if these guys were actually looking for a "friend," or trying to force their way into an apartment and found that I was a more intimidating obstacle than they had bargained for (note: these weren't goofy college kids - they were a little bit rough around the edges). Hell, maybe they were looking for the drug dealer (yes, you read that correctly) who lived in the apartment immediately below mine. In any event, I'm still here to talk about and I didn't have any legal proceedings to deal with so I can't say I have any regrets about how I handled it.

That, by the way, was one of the final things that pushed me into buying my first gun - a Sig P229 that I intended for home/self defense. I grew up in a sheltered suburban environment, and that incident among others woke me up a bit.

 

[bergzilla]

Not only is the students story good but so is jws527s. If i was ever in the said situation I would wait for them to try to come in and then shred em with a 22lr and in the event that didnt get the job done the 410s can finish it without much trouble. "I wish not hell on earth nor death on man but one will happen before ultimate peace." -T.G.







The world is full of liars,cheaters,and thieves.

 

[Atomsk]

When It hits the fan you have to make a decicion and react. I hope i never find myself in this type of situation, but if i do there will be no hesitation on my part to protect myself and my family. i hope everythig goes well for the student in the article

 

[Old Guy]

Good results

Our Company is doing patrols in an area where Knock-Knock, and a silly question was the check to see if some one was home, a young man would break in if he received no answer, there have been no further incidents since we have had our patrols, armed, marked security vehicles, random time lines.

Can not see a problem for the defender, found in house, early AM, a gun on scene. DRT! in our usual ghoulish fashion we all want to know were hit, how many, type and calibre! (.45 or 9mm?) Sorry, could not resist it.

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

Sometimes I'm awake at 2 am, Sometimes not. I don't have to answer the door if I don't feel like getting out of my chair. I might miss some of the movie I'm watching. It's my house, Kick the door in and see what happens.

Good shoot, too bad for the crooks.
(wipes tear from eye)................

 

[JessPeyton]

This story sure seems to indicate that students can be responsible with fireams just like anyone else. Is there any indication that students who live outside of gun-free-zones are more likely to commit violent crime than other students?

This story does make one thing very clear. If you are a criminal, make sure you pick a gun-free-zone to ply your trade.

The student was home alone in the 800 block of East Adams Street, near North Euclid Avenue and East Speedway.
There was a knock at the door and one of the men asked for someone who did not live there.
The student looked past the man he was speaking with and saw another man, who had his face covered and was armed with a gun.
He retreated into his home and grabbed his own handgun, but the men made their way in.
The student called police to report the shooting. When officers arrived they found the men two men dead just inside the doorway.
The student was questioned and is cooperating with police. His name is not being released.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

What better place than a university to prey on people who are (if the school has anything to say about it) disarmed?
Good job by the student.

 

[Mrs. Armoredman]

I used to live in Tucson and I know that area is bad for crime. I agree Col. Cooper would have been proud of him. I am glad the kid is ok. It sounds like a clear cut of self defence to me. If he had not have had his pistol he would have been dead. Excellent job by the student... I hope the school doesn't kick him out for this.

 

[Jette]

What if there was no gun?

My first post, new to the forum but I've been lurking for a while. (I've really enjoyed your posts so far.) This might be better for the legal forum, and I'm sure it has been discussed before, but what if one of the men that entered the house did not have a gun? Essentially, if you shoot an unarmed man in your own home, are you justified in self defense? Will it be based on your story? Of course this could be more tricky if you let him live and he contradicts you. How do they determine if 'justifiable cause' or 'threat to life?' What this comes down to, is do I need to see a gun before I fire?

 

[longdayjake]

Ok, let's say you are a student and you live alone, would it be a good idea to keep a loaded gun by the door? For incidents like these?

No, it would be a good idea to keep a gun on or near your person. In case someone breaks into your house through the door you don't want a gun there for him to use against you. I went to a buddy's house the other day and knocked on the door. He didn't answer but I knew he was home so I went in. He had a loaded .38 on the couch just next to the door. I picked it up and walked to the kitchen where he was cutting up meat for jerky (the reason he didn't answer the door). I then showed it to him and said something like, "bang bang I just killed you with your own gun." I could almost see the lightbulb turn on in his head.

 

[au1776]

As a grad student, similar scenarios have certainly crossed the minds of me and my friends/classmates.

I don't keep a gun near the door (simply isn't a good place for that near the entrance way), but I do try and keep a pistol downstairs with me when I'm up watching tv or doing work. Several of my friends have similar situations, where they feel relatively secure at night (locks on bedroom and downstairs doors and gun near bed), but not so much if they're up late watching a game or studying. This is a good lesson for us.

 

[longdayjake]

Essentially, if you shoot an unarmed man in your own home, are you justified in self defense? Will it be based on your story? Of course this could be more tricky if you let him live and he contradicts you. How do they determine if 'justifiable cause' or 'threat to life?' What this comes down to, is do I need to see a gun before I fire?

Well, if someone is killed during the commission of a felony then whoever is committing the felony can be charged with murder. Atleast thats how it works in most states. That means that if said intruder did indeed force his way into his home along with another that was carrying a gun, it would not be too hard to prove that they were committing a felony or attempting to. In this case say that the homeowner shoots and kills the bad guy that has a gun and the other lives. The bad guy that lives could potentially be charged with murder. The same if it is the other way around. In Idaho all that is needed for justifiable homicide is to prevent death or serious bodily injury. It would not be hard in this case for a lawyer to defend him if things really happened like he said they did.

 

[armoredman]

The area in question is off campus. UofA does have a defensless zone policy in place ON campus, but they do respond to areas around the campus too, fully POST certified peace officers.
Kudos to the student. Two more I don't have to house for 20 years.

 

[yinyangdc]

if they had possibly gone to the wrong house

I would say that they definitely went to the wrong house.

 

[2000Yards]

I grew up in a sheltered suburban environment, and that incident among others woke me up a bit. Today, though, given the equipment at my disposal I'd simply sit back from the door and wait for them to leave or try to enter on their own terms.

I too grew up in a sheltered environment in the suburbs of Orange County, CA and thought nothing beyond the standard juvenile crap could ever occur in my neighborhood. Until the day our neighbor, husband and wife, were executed by two guys, late on a Saturday afternoon, right in their driveway. The killers parked across the street waiting for them to arrive home. Close range, shotgun blasts, multiple hits to each victim. The killers (observed by another neighbor) were in no hurry, made sure both were dead, then got back in their car and drove away. They were never caught.

My neighbor was federal judge who put a lot of people away on drug-related charges. I don't know if he carried or there was any return fire, this happened some time ago.

Mike