stupid question of the week: can you install gas checks manually?

[1KPerDay]

trying "the load" in .308 and the article says in .30 cals you will get leading if you don't use GC pills. I have some 170 laser cast FP but they are flat base non gas checked (though it appears there is a step for the GC).

Do you have to use a sizer to install GC?

 

[Ifishsum]

Without a sizer they won't properly crimp to stay on. Easiest and cheapest is the Lee push-through sizer kit that mounts to a press.

 

[FROGO207]

Those Laser Cast 170 FP pills did just fine without gas checks when I tried them with a slew of different propellants. Noticed no leading in any of my WIN or Marlin 30-30's as they are hard, really hard IMHO. If you are concerned check the barrel and load up a few and try them. Then check for leading after. FWIW I shot them at jacketed starting loads of 2015 BR without leading just to see if they would work without leading in my micro grooved Marlin. No problem and accurate to boot. You would get the best bang for the buck with the Lee push through sizer in .308. But by the time you buy that sizer and the 1000 gas checks it might be close to buying jacketed bullets anyway if you don't plan on shooting lots of them. Also you could buy the less costly soft lead bullets from say, Missouri Bullet and seat the gas check on them for less total cost per round. No need for the hard Laser cast when using a gas check IMO. YMMV

 

[dgod]

In the past, when I shot Lead bullets, I always followed with 3 or 4 Jacked Hollow Points, cleans the lead out for me. When I ran A Brush, with Bore Cleaner on it, there was No Deposit. Just Saying..

 

[Scooter22]

In the past, when I shot Lead bullets, I always followed with 3 or 4 Jacked Hollow Points, cleans the lead out for me.

I think you ironed the lead in. For "The load", if it's the one I'm thinking off you don't need a GC. Its so light your not going to get leadding if your bullet is lubed and your bore isn't a gravel road.

 

[FROGO207]

Think he meant to say smooths the lead out. The cowboy fast draw folks do that with a regular lead bullet after using wax bullets before cleaning their revolvers at our gun club though.

 

[springer99]

Yes, in order to seat the gas-checks you will need to run them thru a sizer die to set them in place. IMHO, if the cast bullets are sized right for your rifle( .001 over groove diameter) and at least 18bnl hardness, you shouldn't see any significant leading at up to 1800-2000fps. If you run harder like straight linotype you can even extend this a bit

 

[.308 Norma]

Without a sizer they won't properly crimp to stay on.

And I'll add - if the gas checks don't stay on after you've seated the bullets in a bottlenecked case, such as a .308, and just one gas check falls off and into your powder charge, you could have a real problem when that gas check only makes it halfway down the barrel of your gun.
I'd try the bullets without the gas checks first. If they lead, clean it out, and get one of those Lee push-through sizer kits like Ifishum recommended.

 

[1KPerDay]

And I'll add - if the gas checks don't stay on after you've seated the bullets in a bottlenecked case, such as a .308, and just one gas check falls off and into your powder charge, you could have a real problem when that gas check only makes it halfway down the barrel of your gun.

That was my primary concern. I'm not sure I'd even recognize leading if I had any, also.

 

[Scooter22]

Yes, in order to seat the gas-checks you will need to run them thru a sizer die to set them in place. IMHO, if the cast bullets are sized right for your rifle( .001 over groove diameter) and at least 18bnl hardness, you shouldn't see any significant leading at up to 1800-2000fps. If you run harder like straight linotype you can even extend this a bit higher. After-all, even the 22RF Magnum doesn't lead.

Yup. I'm no xpert cast boolit guy but the ones Iv'e made shoot fine. I use old WWs I harden. Mainly the Lee 150grn FP for my 5, 30-30s. 2 Winchesters, 2 Marlins w/microgroove, and a Stevens 325. I used to use Hornady GC but they were hard to find so I tried without and no problem. I use the Lee .309 sizer and Lee liquid alox. 2 coats. One before sizing and one after. Never a leading problem close to 2000FPS and accurate

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

You also need crimp on gas checks, such as Hornady or similar product. Some gas checks are not crimp on.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

 

[GooseGestapo]

DO NOT get a .308" sizer.
You'll need to size to at least .309"
.310" is better, and .311" is better still. Especially if you are going to run them through a Marlin MicroGroove barrel.
I size ALL my .30cal cast bullets to .311".
You can get by without the gas-check up to about 1,500fps.
"The Load" is 13.0gr of RedDot, which is getting close to needing a GC.
Try a few and see.
OR, use only 7-10gr of RedDot.
A Lee sizer kit is only about $20. Less than a 1,000 gas checks.

Even my .30Carbine prefers .311" bullets. I use a Lee 90gr RN, powder coated and sized .311" over 12.0gr of #2400. 2,000fps and NO leading. Costs about like a .22lr to shoot...

Hornady GC's crimp on, Lyman don't. I haven't used a Lyman gc in 35yrs.
BTW, Hornady makes the GC's for Lyman, now. That's why they're ~$5/1000 more expensive.

 

[MEHavey]

See
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...99-in-30-06!&p=2466518&viewfull=1#post2466518

Go/ the Lee push-thru dies suggested above, and use ALOX (let dry before sizing) The GCs must be crimped on
You can/do size .309/.310 at 308/30-06 speeds, but you have to match hardness to pressure.
DO NOT OVER-HARDEN.
BN~12-15 Max

 

[mdi]

.

DO NOT get a .308" sizer.
You'll need to size to at least .309"
.310" is better, and .311" is better still. Especially if you are going to run them through a Marlin MicroGroove barrel.
I size ALL my .30cal cast bullets to .311".
You can get by without the gas-check up to about 1,500fps.
"The Load" is 13.0gr of RedDot, which is getting close to needing a GC.
Try a few and see.
OR, use only 7-10gr of RedDot.
A Lee sizer kit is only about $20. Less than a 1,000 gas checks.

Even my .30Carbine prefers .311" bullets. I use a Lee 90gr RN, powder coated and sized .311" over 12.0gr of #2400. 2,000fps and NO leading. Costs about like a .22lr to shoot...

Hornady GC's crimp on, Lyman don't. I haven't used a Lyman gc in 35yrs.
BTW, Hornady makes the GC's for Lyman, now. That's why they're ~$5/1000 more expensive.

This. And while you're waiting for the dies, try some plain based bullets that are sized .002"+ over groove diameter of your barrel. You might not need gas checks..

 

[rsrocket1]

trying "the load" in .308 and the article says in .30 cals you will get leading if you don't use GC pills. I have some 170 laser cast FP but they are flat base non gas checked (though it appears there is a step for the GC).

If what you mean "the load" is 10g Red Dot or something similar, you don't need a gas check. If the lead bullets are lubed, you are GTG. Try 10 shots with 10g Red Dot and see how they shoot. If you are going to get leading, your barrel would be nicely coated by then. I shoot cast 113g, 170g and 200g bullets lubed with 66/33 beeswax/vaseline and often shoot them without gas checks using anywhere from 12g Unique down to 6.5g Red Dot out of my 788 .308 and get no leading whatsoever even though they are gas check designed bullets.

 

[1KPerDay]

Well my initial trial loads of 10 grains of Promo under Lazer cast 170 FP without gas check shoot okay but they don't feed reliably through my Ishapore Enfield 2A1 so I'm giving up on this project for now. The flat nose jams against the right side of the chamber when feeding from left side of the magazine. It's my only .308 bolt gun ATM so I don't really have any use for loading more of these. Thanks for all the info.

Why would some GC be crimp and some be non crimp? How do you crimp a GC?

 

[FROGO207]

The Hornaday gas checks have a small sidewall that is flared out slightly. The upper edge is tapered thicker than the lower wall. Set the bullet in the check and push them both through a sizing die from the base. The side wall is squeezed in and locks onto the base of the bullet and the whole thing is sized the same diameter. Somewhat similar to making a crimp on a 38 SPL round but it does not curl it in. The wedge shaped sidewall digs into the bullet.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Well, you didn't say it was an ENFIELD.
An Ishapor is still a British Enfield.
You didn't think that might be significant?

My .303Brit won't feed that bullet set to the crimp groove, but seated out a bit, will. I typically single feed them...

However, I find the 155gr. .312" Pointed GC mold to work splendidly.
I load them over 20.0gr #2400, and have a painted elevation reference for them on the vernier rear sight. Also sized to .311". It's my favorite rifle/load for off-hand practice.

The molds are CHEAP! Less than cost of 1,000 gas checks....I've got Three 155gr .312" ptdgc. 1,2, and 6-cavities. Order of aquisition. I also use that bullet in '06, and .300BO. Have also two-loaded them in tubular magazine.30/30.
Fun plinker!!!
I've drilled out the single cavity so it now throws a 160gr plainbase bullet.

 

[rsrocket1]

What's wrong with inserting the cartridge manually and closing the bolt? Are you trying to do some WW1 style rapid firing or need a quick follow-on shot while hunting with mouse fart loads? Don't be afraid to shoot one shot at a time.

If those bullet don't feed reliably, play around with the seating depth