Sturmgewehr

[jimsouth]

My cousin just purchased an original Sturmgewehr - what a beautifully designed rifle. I have no doubt, the AK 47 design was stolen from the Sturmgewehr. World War II: Sturmgewehr 44 (StG44) - Military History ...


http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/smallarms/p/stg44.htm

The Sturmgewehr 44 was the first assault rifle to see deployment on a large scale. Developed by Nazi Germany, the Sturmgewehr 44 was introduced in 1943, and first …

 

[briansmithwins]

The major commonality between the StG44 and the AK47 is that they are both use a long stroke action and are functionally ugly. Other than that there isn't much in common.

The AK uses a rotating bolt and the original design was a hybrid of machined and stamped steel while the StG44 uses a tilting bolt and a minimal amount of machined parts.

I'd argue that most of the similarity is from the different rifles both being designed with the same purpose* in mind: cheap to manufacture assault rifles**.

BSW

*Now, arguing if the Sov would have gone whole hog with the AK47 if they hadn't faced the StG44 in combat and seen how effective they were, that's another argument.
**A rifle capable of automatic fire that utilizes a intermediate rifle cartridge.

 

[jimsouth]

The one my cousin has is really lovely - very clean. Ammo available - sometime a little shopping around. Surprising, the paperwork went through quickly. Not so with his 28 Thompson. Again, the Thompson stigma ( real scary looking weapon ). Hey, it is scary looking. I have photos of my Dad - CBI with OSS 101 in Burma WW2. Shorts - boots - no shirt - fatigue hat, and an anchor of a Thompson hanging on his shoulder.

 

[Ian]

MY take on the AK/StG question:

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/ak-and-stg-kissing-cousins/

In a nutshell, Russian design (allowing for the cribbing inherent in all gun designs since about 1920) plus German manufacturing tech.

 

[jimsouth]

Recently, some woman in ( Connecticut ? ) turned in an original Sturmgewehr to a police buy back program. I think she got a $100. Walmart credit card. Supposedly ( don't know for sure ) , the value came to light, & if so, I hope she's allowed to sell it to a dealer - collector. ( $15,000 - $20,000 ). Even one of the police said it should not be destroyed. At least in a museum.

 

[Ian]

The CT lady did get that gun back, as it was properly registered per the NFA. There also one that was turned in just recently in California - don't know about the disposition of that one.

 

[W L Johnson]

It's fact of life that common design requirements will produce similar designs. Both the StG-44 and the AK were design to be use by humans, (whose design hasn't changed much in the past 100 years), with technology on a similar level, and have to obey the same laws of physics.

 

[Fishbed77]

Aside from its general looks and layout, the AK-47 has more in common with the M1 Garand than it does with the StG44.

 

[DougW]

I saw pics form Iraq a few years ago of a couple of thousand Stg44 found in a weapons cache. Guess they were destroyed.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I saw pics form Iraq a few years ago of a couple of thousand Stg44 found in a weapons cache. Guess they were destroyed.

Similar caches were found in Libya and Syria and are still very much in use.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

AK uses a turning bolt with twin frontal locking lugs. I believe Kalashnikov considered the turning bolt of the M1 Garand supperior to the tipping bolt of the StG44. Plus his fire control group is derived from the M1, simplified but the basic principles are there: swinging hammer, hook, hook. The removable dust cover over the action, and all the empty space in the system for dirt to be pushed out of the way as the gun operates, make the AK easier to maintain and more durable in the long haul. StG44 are similar in size and externals, but internally AK is vastly different.

It is bad that the CT lady was unaware of the existence of paperwork on that StG44. Owners of papered NFA items need to have their estate and heirs up to speed on the legality of their collectors items.

 

[J_McLeod]

I got to fire one in Iraq back in 03. They're heavy, with a light recoil and a slow rate of auto fire. Still have the casings.

 

[Ignition Override]

A guy in Newburgh IN allowed me and my brother to shoot a few rounds in his Stg., at the club range two months ago.
There was very little recoil, though I don't remember (at the moment) what type of round is used in the gun.

He enjoyed trying out my only handgun: the WW2 German Sauer 38H (issued to paratroopers and police). Nice pair of guns.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I don't remember (at the moment) what type of round is used in the gun.

7.92x33 ("8mm Kurz").

 

[jimsouth]

7.92x33 ("8mm Kurz").

That's the round - probably available ( more available ) over there, where the majority of the world's crazies are , but not too difficult to locate in the states.

 

[Shear_stress]

Had the chance to handle a transferrable StG 44 at the local public shooting range some years back. Fellow was sighting it in on semi-auto using new production Prvi Partizan ammo. Strange seeing it at a range where the most exotic thing on any given day was a pre-64 Winchester.

Didn't get a chance to shoot it, but did make note of the weight and the complexity of the stampings. Very interesting, very historical rifle.