MedWheeler
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Mitlov writes:
I mentioned above how much I like my Thunder. I forgot to mention that I'm also a southpaw.
I mentioned above how much I like my Thunder. I forgot to mention that I'm also a southpaw.
Subcompact DASA or DAO recommendations/warnings?
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ugaarguy
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One of the advantages to a striker fired gun is that it eliminates the mainspring and mainspring housing that have to sit behind the mag well in a hammer fired gun. If a 1911 was too big for your hands, you're probably going to have to go to a smaller striker fired pistol, like a Kahr, or an even smaller hammer fired pistol like the Bersa .380, Browning BDA / Beretta Cheetah, or CZ 82 / 83. If you're considering a Glock 26, why not get their longer but thinner G48 or G43X and put a NY1 in that?
My understanding was that NY1 triggers don't work on the single stack Glocks (or gen 5 double-stacks). Am I wrong about that?
I don't think this place rents guns? I'll ask once this whole beer situation passes and businesses return to normal, but I don't think that's an option here.
ugaarguy
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The Gen 1-4 NY triggers won't work. Glockmeister stocks the Glock NY Slim Trigger Spring though
Oh wow. That's cool. If I decide to drop the issue of riding the hammer into the holster, a Glock 43X with a NY1 Slim trigger might just be perfect.
A friend has a G43 (no X), I've shot it, and I had no "too big for my hand" complaints.
milemaker13
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I would also suggest kahr, except he needs 10 rds. Does kahr have extended mags?
ugaarguy
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The 43X is a 43 slide on a 48 frame. The 48 is the longer version of the 43, that maintains the same width. The 43X and 48 give you 10 round standard factory magazines, plus the ability to use the metal body, flush fit, 15 round magazines from Shield Arms. That should take care of your defense class requirements and give you a full 9x19 caliber pistol in that small package.
bannockburn
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milemaker13
Didn't see the 10 round magazine requirement. Most you can do in a Kahr magazine would be 7 rounds for the CM9.
Didn't see the 10 round magazine requirement. Most you can do in a Kahr magazine would be 7 rounds for the CM9.
zaitcev
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My local school (TriCon) also requires 10 rounds, but some of the drills are structured in such a way that in practical terms students need 12 minimum.
Beretta 84FS has ambidextrous safety, but no ambidextrous slide stop nor the magazine release.
I think the original idea of P30SK was the best one.
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JTQ
Member
You need to manage expectations.
The only controls on the 1911 you need to reach with a firing grip are the trigger and the thumb safety.
The slide lock is released with the support hand thumb, and nearly everybody shifts the gun in their hand to reach the mag release.
Chances are good you'll need to do something similar with nearly every other gun you may choose.
JTQ
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I don't know how the NY1 trigger would be an advantage for you if your desire is to ride the hammer into the holster.
The Striker Control Device (SCD or as it is common known "The Gadget") may be. https://taudevgroup.myshopify.com/products/striker-control-device
Sorry if the post wasn't clear. I originally wanted DA/SA or DAO because (a) I wanted a long heavy trigger pull for an additional layer of safety, and (b) I wanted to be able to ride the hammer while reholstering. What I meant was, if I drop the requirement (b), a Glock with a NY1 trigger could potentially satisfy (a).
Hadn't heard about teh SCD. That does seem to address (b) if it works as advertised.
A Glock with both a NY1 trigger and a SCD would effectively cover both of the reasons I was looking at DA/SA guns.
JTQ
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I use this video in a lot of these hand size discussions. Watch Shannon Smith work the mag release and slide lock lever on his Glock G17. The whole video is valuable, but watch at the 2:05 mark for how he works the mag release and then at the 7:45 mark for how he works the slide lock lever.
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JTQ
Member
Generally, the DA/SA advantage is you do get some extra safety out of that first trigger pull, which can protect you from the startle response, but once you've figured out you need to be shooting, the subsequent single action trigger pulls are an advantage.
The Glock NY1 trigger, pretty much gives you a magazine full of bad trigger pulls.
Ernest Langdon with this gem at about the 2:05 to 2:45 mark of this video
The Glock NY1 trigger, pretty much gives you a magazine full of bad trigger pulls.
Ernest Langdon with this gem at about the 2:05 to 2:45 mark of this video
JTQ
Member
If this is a pistol you plan on taking to a class for a bunch of shooting - disregarding the pistol in question, the Beretta APX - follow this recommendation at the 1:50 mark (hint - get the full size gun, they are easier to shoot)
This is not universally true in my experience. For example, I have a Dan Wesson full size .357 and a Ruger SP101 2" with the small stock grip. Despite the DW's better sight radius and smoother trigger, I shoot the Ruger better than the Dan Wesson because it just fits me naturally and the full size Dan Wesson does not.
JTQ
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Those two revolvers are completely different guns.
You are looking at mini versions of duty size pistols. The only advantage they give are they are easier to conceal. If your goal is a concealment gun, sure, they would be a good choice.
If your goal is a semi-auto pistol to shoot comfortably at a training course that has a 10 round capacity minimum, which would indicate to me a relatively higher round count class, and you are relatively inexperienced with semi-auto pistols, and looking for a gun that would be easier, rather than harder to complete that class, a duty size version of one of those mini pistols would be much easier to accomplish that goal.
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JTQ
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I may be completely wrong, but how I see your thought process is you view semi-autos like you do revolvers.
You imagine a .357 Magnum revolver in the S&W line-up (chosen simply because everybody understands their frame sizes) if they all could be had with 4" barrels, a J-Frame would be smaller and have a shorter trigger reach than a K-Frame, that would be smaller and shorter trigger reach than an L-Frame, that would be smaller and shorter trigger reach than an N-Frame. For the small handed shooter, a K-Frame would probably be an advantage over an N-Frame. I agree.
That's not how it works in the semi-auto pistol world. A double column Glock in 9mm, from G26, to G19, to G17, to G34, to G17L all have the same trigger reach and reach to the other controls. The only difference is the barrel length and grip length top to bottom. The only advantage the smaller guns give is for concealment. They aren't a hand size advantage to those with short fingers.
You imagine a .357 Magnum revolver in the S&W line-up (chosen simply because everybody understands their frame sizes) if they all could be had with 4" barrels, a J-Frame would be smaller and have a shorter trigger reach than a K-Frame, that would be smaller and shorter trigger reach than an L-Frame, that would be smaller and shorter trigger reach than an N-Frame. For the small handed shooter, a K-Frame would probably be an advantage over an N-Frame. I agree.
That's not how it works in the semi-auto pistol world. A double column Glock in 9mm, from G26, to G19, to G17, to G34, to G17L all have the same trigger reach and reach to the other controls. The only difference is the barrel length and grip length top to bottom. The only advantage the smaller guns give is for concealment. They aren't a hand size advantage to those with short fingers.
Tallball
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A Glock 26 can use a Glock 19 magazine just fine, if higher capacity is needed. The magazine will stick out of the butt a bit, of course, but you can buy a little plastic sleeve for a few dollars to make it look smoother. When I take my Glock 26 along for traveling, I always bring a couple of G19 magazines for reloads.
"I had a P11 long time ago but sold it due to heavy trigger,"
I have owned two Kel-Tec pistols and had zero problems with either one. I let my FiL have my P3AT because he wanted/needed a tiny 380 and I had several. I bought a used P11 for $120-something due to a lucky bid on GB. It was dirty and had a small amount of surface rust, but I cleaned it up easily enough. It functioned perfectly. The trigger was too stiff for me and I eventually traded it towards something else, but if someone wanted a small 10+ capacity 9mm pistol with a heavy-ish trigger, it would be an obvious candidate.
"I had a P11 long time ago but sold it due to heavy trigger,"
I have owned two Kel-Tec pistols and had zero problems with either one. I let my FiL have my P3AT because he wanted/needed a tiny 380 and I had several. I bought a used P11 for $120-something due to a lucky bid on GB. It was dirty and had a small amount of surface rust, but I cleaned it up easily enough. It functioned perfectly. The trigger was too stiff for me and I eventually traded it towards something else, but if someone wanted a small 10+ capacity 9mm pistol with a heavy-ish trigger, it would be an obvious candidate.
This is a really great analogy. Let's run with it for a minute.
If a PX4 Subcompact is like a snubnose L-Frame, you're right to point out that it's not going to be any better for me to handle than an L frame with a full length barrel. But I don't think the answer should be for me to go ahead and buy a full-length-barrel L frame. Instead, I want a J-Frame or maybe K-frame built for all-day range use and occasional carrying (like my own SP101), instead of carrying all day and rarely shooting (like a 642 Airweight).
Is a Glock 43X going to be much smaller in the palm of the hand than a Glock 17? If so, that might be a great solution with a NY1 trigger and SCD. If not, it isn't.
Explaining from another angle, Browning has the 1911-380, where it's a full size duty handgun but shrunken by 15% in every dimension. I've handled one and it fit me like a tailored suit; it just doesn't have 10-round magazines available and doesn't have the type of trigger I'm looking for. Are there other options out there like that, where it's not just a full size service pistol with a trimmed-down slide and grip-butt, but actually smaller everywhere?
JTQ
Member
Yes the 43X has a smaller frame than a G17.
However, the question is what is the goal of this purchase?
Are you looking for a small concealed carry gun, to conceal carry?
or
Are you looking for a gun to take to a high round count training course, to learn how to shoot auto pistols, that has a minimum capacity of 10 rounds?
The advantage of scaleable gun families, like Glock, etc., is you can pick an easily shootable family member, like a G17 or G34. Take it to a training class, shoot a whole bunch of rounds (comfortably), take the gun home, practice over and over at your local range, learn to shoot the gun well, and once you've learned to shoot a Glock, and decide you're ready to carry a Glock, buy a smaller version of the gun you're comfortable shooting for carry.
I'm trying to caution you not to buy a small, relatively difficult to shoot, concealment gun, to take to a high round count course, to learn how to shoot that particular brand/style/type of semi-auto. That is not a recipe for success.
JTQ
Member
If we only owned one gun, and will only ever own one gun, that would probably be a good way to go.
However, here in America and here on The High Road, there are probably folks that have bought more guns this month, heck, probably this week, than I have bought in my entire life, and I would not choose a sub-compact pistol to take to a high round count training course unless I were already an expert with that type of pistol and merely working out the kinks of my carry issues with the small gun.
Find the duty size handgun that best fits your hand. Take it to your class, learn to shoot it well. If you like that type of firearm, and want to carry it, then look for the small version. Learning to shoot with the small versions is not the optimal way to go.
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needmorecowbell
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That was my experience too. If want something 10+ that’s easily concealable and heavy trigger this is it.
JTQ
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Look at different families. The Gen 3 Glocks have thicker grips and a longer trigger reach than the Gen 4 Glocks. The Beretta APX has a shorter trigger reach than the Glock, the Beretta 92X has a shorter trigger reach and slimmer grip than the 92FS. HK has a variety of options, the USP9c has a shorter trigger reach than the USP9, the VP and P30 probably have shorter trigger reach than the USP and come with various backstraps and side panels to tune the grip for the user, and so on and so on.
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