Suggest a varmint bullet for 357 mag.

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SVTOhio

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Looking for a ideal bullet for maximum damage on groundhogs from my Ruger SP101. I will be reloading. I would like to be able to recover the groundhogs after shooting so that means stopping them dead in their tracks. Is there a bullet out there that will give me maximum expansion when shooting very light skinned animals? It has been my experience that the 357 bullets I have tried so far pass through a groundhog like a hot knife through butter and don't due much damage. I suspect this is due to them being designed for larger game and penetration. Is it possible to get the same performance from a short barreled 357 that I get from a 223 shooting varmint bullets? Thankyou.


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And before anyone says that it would be wise to choose a different firearm for hunting groundhogs, I simply find it more enjoyable to try and get close and hit the ground hogs with my carry revolver. Adds a little bit more of a challenge and also provides good practice with my carry piece. Here is a few pics of the few I have killed and recovered so far this summer. I have shared these pics before in another post.
8dbd75c2bff25b60611d831ed8d32a22.jpg d3545758618d6627d6c63ed651c64129.jpg 5e49e1d1f747f4c5555f7eba4cacb775.jpg


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Getting expansion from a .357 bullet on a small critter is going to be hard, but if I was developing a load for just that purpose, it would probably be with a 110 gr. bullet, driven very fast. There is a downside to that, though. To drive the lighter bullet fast requires a lot of powder, which accelerates forcing cone wear and top strap cutting. As they say, for every action, there's a reaction. Or, in this case, a tradeoff.

The more lead exposed, and the larger the hollowpoint cavity, along with a relatively thin jacket, will give the most expansion at the velocities you'll be working with.

Hope this helps.

Fred
 
I would guess the 140gr Hornady FTX bullet will work well. The polymer tip will initiate expansion quicker than a traditional HP bullet. I never tried them for a handgun hunt so I have no first hand information.
 
Your inquiry concerns using a 357 projectile for taking varmints.

Quick and dirty reply - I would think that if you're shooting varmints, any 357 projectile will do the job - if you can hit the varmint..........:D
 
bayou5252 said:
Your inquiry concerns using a 357 projectile for taking varmints.

Quick and dirty reply - I would think that if you're shooting varmints, any 357 projectile will do the job - if you can hit the varmint..........:D
Click to expand...



Actually this is not the case for my application, I want to kill groundhogs in their tracks without them getting the 5-20ft back to their holes. This requires severely damaging the CNS (brain and spinal cord). All the 357 bullets I have tried slice through like butter leaving a quarter size wound channel. This leaves very little margin of error when taking a shot, a margin I would like to increase since I'll be shooting with a 3" barrel revolver with fixed sights at ranges that it's not designed for. A fragmenting varmint bullet literally explodes when hitting a groundhog from a rifle leaving the animal incapacitated. I'm asking you great folks at the high road if this is possible with a 357 bullet from a 3" revolver. I would imagine the only way to achieve this would be a light bullet traveling at high velocities. Possible I may find the answer in one of the numerous gimmicky self defense loads that are floating around nowadays. Not sure if the bullets are available for reloaders though.


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Semi jacketed bullets of light weight, high velocity with have the most violent expansion. The bad news is they tend to have the worst long range accuracy for me.

You didn't mention what bullet types you are currently using, or the range.

I get great accuracy from Hornady XTP, but I can't whether a groundhog will really open it up. Whatever expending bullet you use, the lighter the bullet, the higher the velocity, and the less it takes to open it up.
 
Have you looked at bullets made to expand at .38 Special/+P velocities? No experience but it seems logical that if they expand at the lower velocities, they would expand explosively at .357 magnum veolcities. Speer has a Gold Dot for short barrel .38 Special that may fit the bill for what you want. Good luck.
 
Find the lightest 380 bullet you can get and load it as fast as you can.

They will probably shoot well enough but top strap erosion would be a concern
 
90gr .380 bullets (.356) should be ideal for rapid expansion. Not sure on the SP 101 bore diameter, as to affecting accuracy.

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I would bet that a real light cast lead hollow point would be just the ticket for what you want.
http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=31
These little 88gr flying ashtrays can be custom ordered in .358 as well. Im sure you could get them unlubed also. You can powder coat them very easily to avoid leading up your barrel.

Note- I have never had any experience with the above vendor. I stumbled across their website and they have a bunch of really cool HP cast boolits.
 
I would bet that a real light cast lead hollow point would be just the ticket for what you want.
Click to expand...

That sounds like the ticket to me-cast lead HP

or maybe these a bit heavier?
http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=35
(never used them or ordered for the site but it looks like what might do the trick)
I would think the non jacket lead HP would open up quick at a reasonable vel.

Lots of non full magnum that should be easy on the pistol.
125 GR. MEI CAST LRNFP Hodgdon CFE Pistol .358" 1.580" 6.6 1375 22,400 PSI 7.6 1514 27,900 PSI (less of course for 130s)
135 GR. CAST LRNFP Hodgdon Universal .358" 1.580" 4.8 986 11,700 CUP 6.5 1314 27,800 CUP
others of course

or Glasser safety slugs maybe? (expensive)
 
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I meant to link those 130gr as well. I bet they would be a good bullet for full magnum loads. When I saw those little 88gr bullets I thought "wow, those things would probably fragment into a fine lead mist when they hit". Not too sure how the 88gr bullets will hold up traveling down the bore with a true magnum load. Such a short bearing surface that they may need a real hard alloy to properly engage the rifling at those velocities. the 88gr may be better suited for medium burn powders like HS6, cfe pistol, power pistol, unique etc.
 
the Black Spot said:
You might try some full wadcutters.

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=68_76
Click to expand...
Op is looking for explosive bullets that will fragment in the little groundhogs. Those wadcutters would zip right on through.

On another note now I want to load up a two bullet load using some of these http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.p...ducts_id=231&zenid=15epgjc5bkt1487h7nov42sdl5 75gr wadcutters along with the 88gr bullet I linked above in post #12. Hollow point sitting atop the wadcutter for a total bullet weight of 163gr. I was thinking I would remove the lube and powder coat them to be able to push them at full magnum w296 or even lilgun loads. Its certainly uncharted territory(well, FC45LC on youtube has a number of videos on duplex roundball loads) but I bet this bullet combo can be pushed fast enough for fragmentation of the HP bullet.

OP- maybe this would be a fun idea to play around with for your purposes. I bet it doesn't take much velocity to fragment those little 88gr hollow points. There is a point of diminishing return with really light bullets in 357 mag loads. It may not hurt to lose a couple hundred fps by throwing in a second 75gr bullet.
 
I too favor wadcutters for your purposes. The meplat will cut a nice hole, and the bullet, if soft enough, will deform and stay in the critter. Even if it does cut through, the meplat will have a much greater effect than an unexpanded hollowpoint, which acts like round ball.

For the science, check out this article, particularly the spreadsheet.
https://beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/61
 
The 135gr SBGD should work wonders at 1200-1250fps, You'll have a hard time getting a lot of velocity even with light 380 bullets due to the short dwell time from a 3" barrel
 
Reefinmike said:
Op is looking for explosive bullets that will fragment in the little groundhogs. Those wadcutters would zip right on through.

On another note now I want to load up a two bullet load using some of these http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.p...ducts_id=231&zenid=15epgjc5bkt1487h7nov42sdl5 75gr wadcutters along with the 88gr bullet I linked above in post #12. Hollow point sitting atop the wadcutter for a total bullet weight of 163gr. I was thinking I would remove the lube and powder coat them to be able to push them at full magnum w296 or even lilgun loads. Its certainly uncharted territory(well, FC45LC on youtube has a number of videos on duplex roundball loads) but I bet this bullet combo can be pushed fast enough for fragmentation of the HP bullet.

OP- maybe this would be a fun idea to play around with for your purposes. I bet it doesn't take much velocity to fragment those little 88gr hollow points. There is a point of diminishing return with really light bullets in 357 mag loads. It may not hurt to lose a couple hundred fps by throwing in a second 75gr bullet.
Click to expand...



Now we are talking. These are the kinds of responses I was hoping to get.


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Wadcutters may zip through, but will do more damage than non expanding hollow point. I agree with IlikeSA, soft enough wadcutter will work.
From my bullet testing i would take a wadcutter over hollow points anyday.
 
Interesting situation! For one...you'll NEVER get a short barrelled 357 to do equal damage to the 223 rifle, but that's not to say that you can't improve what you're using now.:)

How about these: http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/handgun+355-380-auto 75 grains should be able to be driven to pretty crazy velocity...using moderate powder charges of something like Unique which 'shouldn't' erode the topstrap like the heavy ball powders seem to enjoy doing. At handgun distances I'd think that the .355's would shoot pretty decently...but you'll not know until you try. And maybe Lehigh would be willing to make some custom diameters for you if you ask nicely.:) They're all CNC turned so it should be pretty simple thing to bump up the diameter a little if you need it...but they'd be the ones to answer that question.

Then the question of accuracy rears its' ugly head.:( Can you work up some fast loads with the fragmenting 75's that hit where you want? It's always going to come down to hitting them where it hurts the most moreso than what you hit them with...isn't it? I'd bet that a little work with the 75's and you'll come up with an accurate and smokin' load that will slay the dirt hogs just fine.

I shoot them all the time with a .22 airgun and they just roll over...most of the time if I put the pill where it belongs. Body shoot them with the PCP Marauder and they jump in the air and back to the hole! The 357 fragmenting bullet will give you LOTS more damage radius so a center-mass hit likely will drop them on the spot. Anyhow...you'll have some fun loading and testing! Good luck and be sure to keep us appraised of how you get on.
 
Thanks for all the awesome suggestions everybody!! Busy next couple of weeks with work but I will try to get down to the local store for reloading supply's and see what I can come up with.


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If you can find any Winchester JHP they are thin jacketed and work well for groundhogs.I've shot about 100 with them they work a lot better than the Hornady XTP hollowpoints.I never ran any expansion tests with them but they do damage and the hole going out is a lot bigger than the entrance.Most were shot with a 4 5/8 Blackhawk some with a Marlin.I had very few make it to the hole with this bullet.The handgun I've had the most make it to the hole was a Single Six 4 5/8 32 Mag using Hornady bullets.
 
I think the bigger question than what will expand rapidly is what will obtain acceptable accuracy, which pretty much depends on your distances. I'll be interested in hearing the results.
 
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