suggest me a gun for IPSC?

[vanbeast]

Hey all,

Since you've always been so incredibly helpful, I thought I'd impose once again for more advice.

I want to get into IPSC. I need advice on what gun to buy. My primary criteria is price.

I'm probably not going to be carrying this pistol for defense, nor will I likely keep it in my home for defense (too many idiot roommates). As I am a poor college student, price is a major concern.

I'm hoping to spend around $500 for a gun, holster, a few mags, and hopefully a few hundred rounds to practice with. I would also like to have a gun that is legal for IDPA, should I ever choose to explore that.

Thanks a bunch,
Ben

 

[Jeeper]

Glock 17 would be a good choice. Get a decent Kydex holster(Uncle Mikes maybe) 2 mag pouches and at least 3 mags total. You should be able to use the whole rig shooting porduction in IPSC and SSP in IDPA.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Something like a Springfield Armory XD or Glock with a total of 5 10-round magazines and chambered in 9mm should get you set in Production for a while.

Finding something you like and will be familar with is the key.

It's a fun sport but can get expensive.

 

[Sean Smith]

Hmm. You probably won't want to shoot Open class... the optics would cost as much as you could spend on the gun!

You could find a used 1911 from a decent brand, get some 10-round CMC PowerMags, and shoot Limited-10. The same gun would be good for CDP in IDPA with 8 round mags. But in both cases you'd be using really minimal hardware and be at a serious handicap.

I'd suggest that you get a CZ-75BD for around $350 and spend the extra money on mags and ammo. You could shoot IPSC Production class or IDPA Stock Service Pistol with the same gun, and the hardware rules for both are almost the same. I'd get the BD decocker model, because in both classes first shot needs to be DA, and I wouldn't want to be thumb decocking my gun all the time.

Other good choices... Glock 17, SigSauer P226, Beretta 92 series, HK USP9. But most of those will bust your $500 total budget just on the gun unless you get a used one.

 

[MoNsTeR]

Uhh guys, he said $500 for the whole getup. At least in my neck of the woods, $500 won't even get you a new Glock, and has no hope of getting a 1911, much less accessories and ammo.

As I see it, the best choices are a Ruger P89 or CZ 75B. You should be able to get either for around $350, add a few mags at $25-$30 each, spend as much or as little as you like on a holster, and still have a little money for ammo. Both are legal for IPSC Production and IDPA SSP.

 

[DDGator]

Yeah -- you can't come close to a Glock 17 and all the equipment in my area for $500...

Remember for IPSC that hi-cap mags are allowed and are a real advantage. For me, choosing a gun with cheap hi-caps was important.

I think you have to go with a Ruger or a CZ to hit this price range.

I would suggest:

CZ-75B (hopefully a Military with one 10-rounder and 1 hi-cap): $375
2 more hi-caps (15 rounders): $80
Fobus Holster: $20
Fobus 2-Mag Carrier: $20

Total: $495!

I prefer the 75B over the BD because it is more versatile -- you can start DA or SA cocked and locked.

You may be able to do something similar with a Ruger -- I am not familiar with those prices. Just a single hi-cap Glock mag will set you back $90 or so.

I shoot my CZ-75B Miliary with its standard fixed sights in local informal IPSC shoots and can keep up with guys running race guns costing 4 times as much money.

 

[vanbeast]

Hmmm... interesting.

I really dig polymer guns, the XD is very nice, but on sheer look and feel alone, I really, REALLY want a P99.

HOWEVER, the guys I met last weekend when I went out and watched a match all said I ought to get a .45 to prevent the minor power penalty or something like that. I'm struggling to understand that aspect of the rules right now, but that's what they said.

Of course, that's going to break my budget on ammo....

 

[DDGator]

The scoring rules differentiate between "major" calibers" and "minor calibers. 9mm is a minor caliber. .40 and .45 are major. You get more points for non-A zone hits with a major caliber -- presumably to adjust for the fact that the minor caliber is easier to shoot fast.

Depends what you want to do. There is a reason why you get more points for major -- its harder to do.

Of course, CZ and Ruger both offer guns in .40 and in .45 ACP.

 

[Correia]

Don't worry about the power factor thing. You are just starting out. You don't expect to win matches right off the bat do you?

Seriously though, if you don't reload 9mm is far cheaper to shoot. As you become more immeresed in shooting you will start to reload.

Lots of good advice given. A few others that you might want to look at by your budget criteria are some of the various Hi Power clones. FEGs suffer from rudimentary sights, but they can be found for well under $300 (sometimes as low as $200). 17 round South African magazines are available from CDNN for around $25.

In IDPA this would put you in the ESP class, which is very competitive, but like I said, you are just starting out. Go and have fun, you will spend lots more money later.

 

[BerettaNut92]

Don't worry about power factor and don't let guys heckle you out of your gun. People diss my Beretta all the time, even if I finish ahead with them with 10-round magazines.

The CZ75BD is a SWEET gun. I hate the stock sights but you can fix that. Don't get carried away with modifications at first...it's tempting to dump all your money into stuff but you might or might not even use it later.

Remember...it don't matter what or when or how....frontsight...press....always

 

[Jim Watson]

If you shoot in Production Division with XD, P99, or Glock, all scores are Minor no matter what the caliber or Power Factor. You can get a .40; some ammo makes Major Power Factor and can be competitive in Limited-10 with the .45s. But ammo cost goes up.

I recommend you get whatever 9mm suits you and shoot Production. Call me back when you graduate and get a good job and we will talk about Limited and Open guns.

PS: It has to be a double action or equivalent. No BHPs, 1911s, or similar are allowed in Production.

 

[bullseyekp]

"As I see it, the best choices are a Ruger P89........"

As I see it, a P89 would not be the best choice, but rather a P95. Better ergonomics and lighter weight. I would recommend either a P95, XD or CZ of some sort. Anyone of those guns will get you into production division in USPSA and SSP/ESP in IDPA. The XD is a little pricey but I have heard favorable reviews from some top tier USPSA shooters who are considering production division. Rob Leatham is at the USPSA Factory Gun Nationals right now shooting one. Not that he couldn't shoot anything well, but.

As far as scoring goes, if you want to stay in your proposed budget, you are likely limited to production division where EVERYONE is scored minor. Don't let the some schmuck at the range convince you to use a 1911 because "it's a man's gun" or some nonsense like that. Production division is growing rapidly and you won't be the only one out there shooting a plastic blaster.

While I don't own any of his stuff, Uncle Mike's holsters and mag pouches are probably the way to start. Buy two double carriers for USPSA and have five 10-round magazines for your gun. Some courses of fire are 35-40 rounds and you don't want to be stranded with no ammo and two targets left because you fired extra rounds earlier in the stage. A P95, five magazines, two double mag pouches and a holster will run you about $550 with tax. You should really check out the XD though for an extra $50-75. The trigger pull is far superior to a DA/SA, so I hear.

Enjoy the Fourth and stay away from semis loaded with fireworks.

 

[vanbeast]

Hrm. The XD is not on the approved list for production at ipsc.org. uspsa.org seems to be down right now, so I can't check if there is a more specific list there. I've been looking at these pretty seriously for the last few hours, doing lots of research. They seem like good guns!

 

[10-Ring]

I'd recommend a CZ, Baby Eagle or an XD, especially for the budget minded. I'd prolly lean towards the CZ 75 & down the road get a 22lr conv. kit so that you can get ALOT of inexpensive practice on your comp gun!

 

[243_shooter]

I've been having fun with my P89.. Managed 65 A's, 1 C, and 2 misses at my first match.. Times were a bit slow, did some silly things (like start a stage with half full mags ).

My two biggest problems right now with the pistol are blowing the first DA shot, and mag changes (can't reach the release without changing my grip).

It's my first pistol so I don't have a lot to compare it with though

Leo

 

[Longbow]

Another vote for XD or Glock 17! XD goes for <$500 and Refurb Glocks go for <$400, if you know a dealer that would transfer for you for a reasonable amount of $$, I say go get one.
Production class is fun! I started in limited w/ an STI double stack, but if I knew then that production class is coming, I wouldn't invest on an STI. Production class offers the same amount of fun for less $$ (specially if you're shooting a 9mm), IMO.
BTW, XD is legal in USPSA production class, Rob Leatham used one to win area 5 in production class.

 

[Tacblack]

For that amount of money and still have some fun most the guys are right.
Get a CZ and uncle mike holster some mags and your ready to play in both. I started in IPSC with a Taurus 92 which would work and might fall in your price range. I still use it in production, ESP and SSP. For IPSC I would have 5 mags.

 

[lycanthrope]

I shoot both IDPA and USPSA on a monthly basis. Generally, the fastest gun in IDPA would be a 1911 in 9mm (ESP). The fastest in USPSA is the open blaster at $2500+. In the limited class it's the STI Edge at $1800. All 1911 style guns..

Guns legal for both types of competition.....

You have options. You could get a Glock in .40 and work it to shoot production in USPSA ans SSP in IDPA. Not a bad choice. The XD is very nice to shoot. I prefer it to the Glock....even with a 3lb disconnector.

A 1911 in .45 is also a nice place to start as a crossover gun (my vote as the best), but not as cheap to reload as the .40 (difference in 9m and .40 to reload is pretty small). It would put you in CDP for IDPA and Limited 10 in USPSA. The Springfield 1911 would be sufficient in that case. A Para would also be good. I think the 1911 is easier to shoot well, but it depends on the user.

Make sure you get at least .40 IMHO. Major power factor DOES matter in USPSA if you shoot Limited 10. A-zones are same for major and minor but after that things change. If you are serious about USPSA and changing future classes) then learn the 1911. For all about USPSA shooting from the pros check out www.brianenos.com


Side note: Wal Mart has .45 ACP 100 packs for $20. You will need 100-150 per USPSA match. I know $500 is your limit for gear, but if you shoot a bunch of matches then ammo is gonna cost ya. You need 5 mags for ISPC/USPSA. IDPA is generally cheaper in terms of gear and mags (you can only wear 3).

Get a gun that fits you and you like. Shoot it.....a lot. When you aren't shooting, dry fire it safley and practice. Please go to IDPA and USPSA matches and ASK. People will be helpfull. See what they shoot and how. Learn while you save the cash.

 

[jhisaac1]

VanBeast,
Somebody mentioned the Ruger P<something>. If you really want to get in the door cheap, Fisherman's Marine and Outdoors in Oregon City has Ruger semi-auto's right now for $259. I don't know what mags cost, but you should still be able to buy a bucket load of 9mm ammo after you buy some more mags and holster/carriers, etc.

jhisaac1

 

[vanbeast]

jhisaac1, thanks. I really don't like Ruger guns, but I'll check it out.

I went to The Gun Broker in Tigard today (for any Oregonians reading this) and was shown the following guns:

Glock 17? Some glock at any rate.
Taurus Somethingorother
Smith and Wesson 910
XD-9
Ruger P-something

As much as I really like the XD, after dry-firing the other guns (with the decockers and whatnot) I think I would be nervous about the SA-like pull if/when I start to carry it. Same story for the Glock.

I really like the 910. A lot. The Taurus was okay but the controls were a little funky. The ruger was like the 910 but with the controls altered just enough to be next to unusable. Plus the mag didn't drop free.

Nobody has said anything about the 910 yet... is it a crappy gun? Does anyone use them?

Thanks,
vb

 

[Longbow]

The 910 has a trigger disconnect, if it doesn't bother you, then go for it.

 

[vanbeast]

I don't really know that much... what does a trigger disconnect do?

 

[Tacblack]

Most of the Smith auto's have them and a lot of BHP I am not sure what else usually came with trigger disconnects.

The trigger will only work when the magazine is in the gun. When the mags is out of the gun the trigger is diconnected, mine felt just like the safety was engaged. This can be "fixed" so the gun will fire with the mag out. Everyone I know with BHP's did this.

As for Smith auto's in general. Smith is known for making good revolvers and the auto's are just kind of there. On the other hand you should be able to pick one up pretty cheap. Don't pay too much for one, they don't hold a lot of value and don't seem to get many bites. I had to almost give mine away. Hope this helps some ask some other people what they think of them. I don't mean to sound down on them, mine shot well. Just didn't do anything for me and I sold them in mint shape for half thier list price and that took weeks.

 

[faustulus]

I would go with the CZ75. It would work for IPSC or for IDPA, in fact you could use it in multiple classes in either. HiCaps aren't outrageous and the gun shoots like a dream. For the money I think you would be hard pressed to do better. You should be able to find one under $350.

 

[Rob999]

The 910 is good! ok, they're underrated (in price and reputation compared to my HK and Open Gun.. as well as some others out there), but they're accurate, reliable and cheap! they feed anything. Some teething problems.. but that was quicly sorted out...
I use the 910 for IPSC production class when I was starting but then moved to open division just last month.. not to mention that they're easily carried anywhere!

I'd recommend it..... value wise, they're cheap to start out with and there is plenty of options on parts, sights, etc... not to mention that in production, everything is scored in minor. Hicap mags are readily available and cheap compared to others

At the end of the day, go to a range and test all the guns we've listed here. Get one that fits your style of shooting best... grip comfort, control manipulation and sights are critical to choosing the gun. You really should go to a range and test the gun before buying it.

Have Fun!