I'm in the market for a mid-size to compact 1911 with an eye towards carry. I'd like to keep the cost sub-$1500 if possible, so that lets out the Wilsons, Nighthawks, Ed Browns, etc. With that in mind, I'd love to get suggestions, particularly if you've had relevant personal experience. Thanks in advance.
Suggestion for 3.5"-4.25" 1911 for carry
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browningguy
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I just bought the commander size Smith & Wesson a few weeks ago, scandium frame, bobtail grip, tritium sights, and it even shoots pretty good.
Although I have only had it to the range twice I ran a mix of cheap ball and SD ammo through it without a problem.
Although I have only had it to the range twice I ran a mix of cheap ball and SD ammo through it without a problem.
ugaarguy
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From personal experience, if you go shorter than 4" they start getting picky about ammo or finicky about function and tuning. I prefer the true 4.25" commander length with a standard bbl bushing and spring cap setup for ease of maintenance. I've also had issues with firing pin safeties breaking and rendering the gun inoperable.
Given those criteria I came close to getting the S&W E-Series commander like browningguy has. However, I found a Colt Wiley Clapp Commander first.
The Colt WCC is at the top of your price range, but it's worthy of strong consideration. In addition to the lack of firing pin safety (making it a Series 70 in Colt lingo), the front strap of the frame is hand checkering by Pete Single, it has a Colt National Match bbl, a GI style small pad single side thumb safety, a solid black extra wide notch Novak's rear sight, and a brass bead Novak's front sight.
The small pad GI style thumb safety appeals to me because the low profile is easier for carry. The sights work quite well in very low light, and avoid the potential of washing out the target that can occur on many tritium night sights. The hand checkered front strap, and NM bbl give you some higher end features in a production gun. http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/SpecialEditions/21stCenturyCommander.aspx
Given those criteria I came close to getting the S&W E-Series commander like browningguy has. However, I found a Colt Wiley Clapp Commander first.
The Colt WCC is at the top of your price range, but it's worthy of strong consideration. In addition to the lack of firing pin safety (making it a Series 70 in Colt lingo), the front strap of the frame is hand checkering by Pete Single, it has a Colt National Match bbl, a GI style small pad single side thumb safety, a solid black extra wide notch Novak's rear sight, and a brass bead Novak's front sight.
The small pad GI style thumb safety appeals to me because the low profile is easier for carry. The sights work quite well in very low light, and avoid the potential of washing out the target that can occur on many tritium night sights. The hand checkered front strap, and NM bbl give you some higher end features in a production gun. http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/SpecialEditions/21stCenturyCommander.aspx
bigfatdave
Member
Might be true of some models
There are a lot of modern short 1911-derived designs that run just fine, though.
Well, I have one 3.5" officer-frame Armscor gun (Citadel) that runs great, it was $425 or so - and I have another custom-built Armscor gun (RIA) with a midsize upper and an officer frame, I thing that ran around $600, but the costs were scattered onto a bunch of different invoices (frame/slide&barrel/labor/night sights/shipping), so I'd have a hard time getting an exact cost for it, but it sure wasn't $1500!
So you could get TWO guns and a big pile of magazines for your budget - if function and reliability are your primary concerns.
MarshallDodge
Member
As soon as I see a documented case of someone running more than 1000 rounds of ball ammo through an Armscor or one of the Phillipine made guns without a parts failure then I would trust them. Until then...
The Dan Wesson VBOB is a nice gun. Look around for a nice used one. I also would put my stamp of approval on a S&W E series.
The Dan Wesson VBOB is a nice gun. Look around for a nice used one. I also would put my stamp of approval on a S&W E series.
1911 guy
Member
While I'll never claim they have the fit, finish and overall quality of a higher end model, the "phillipino beer can" (as described by one detractor) pistols can and do regularly run well. I have one that has seen several 3 day classes with no problems.
To the OP: considering that the issues with concealing a handgun are grip thickness and width, you gain nothing with a shorter barrel, unless you go long to the point of being silly. Is there a particular reason you are looking at shorter than standard (5") barrel lenght?
My personal limit is the 4.25" barrel. Below that and they start to have serious timing issues. They are either done right from the start or are nearly impossible to correct.
To the OP: considering that the issues with concealing a handgun are grip thickness and width, you gain nothing with a shorter barrel, unless you go long to the point of being silly. Is there a particular reason you are looking at shorter than standard (5") barrel lenght?
My personal limit is the 4.25" barrel. Below that and they start to have serious timing issues. They are either done right from the start or are nearly impossible to correct.
bigfatdave
Member
MarshallDodge, I'm well over 1000 with the 3.5" gun
It did need a new recoil spring a while back - other than that all the moving/working parts are factory original. Like any gun, it is a compromise. This design sacrifices recoil spring longevity for reliability, and that works for me, as the spring is noticeably weaker LONG before it causes malfunctions (which would precede breakage)
Bring 1000 rounds and a camera if you want documentation, I ordered extra recoil springs with the first replacement, and springs for the faux-CCO while I was at it. Either will run 1000 basic brass-cased ball/FMJ rounds with reasonable cleaning and maintenance.
I'll even let you help load magazines and shoot some, if you want.
It did need a new recoil spring a while back - other than that all the moving/working parts are factory original. Like any gun, it is a compromise. This design sacrifices recoil spring longevity for reliability, and that works for me, as the spring is noticeably weaker LONG before it causes malfunctions (which would precede breakage)
Bring 1000 rounds and a camera if you want documentation, I ordered extra recoil springs with the first replacement, and springs for the faux-CCO while I was at it. Either will run 1000 basic brass-cased ball/FMJ rounds with reasonable cleaning and maintenance.
I'll even let you help load magazines and shoot some, if you want.
TMann
Member
I have an alloy-framed Smith and Wesson 1911 in a commander size (4.25" barrel.) Mine is the Gunsite edition and it's a great shooter.
TMann
TMann
Gordon
Member
Another happy Gunsite edition S&W owner-scandium rocks! BTW the S&W shown is super neat! I love the rounded frame!
Jed Carter
Member
My CCW of choice is a SIG RCS 1911, 4.2 " barrel on an officer sized alloy frame. I have owned this for just over 2 years, even used it for a Steel Challenge match. Flawless performance, really accurate, carries well, and Novak night sights too, worth a look.
bannockburn
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I have always been partial to the Colt Combat Commander as well as the Lightwieght Commander. Just the right combination of size and balance that make them such great CCW pieces. I also have a Colt Officers Model which has been 100% reliable since the day I got it not long after they were first introduced. Recently I picked up a Colt New Agent, the one with the XS sights, though I haven't had a chance to really put it through its paces yet.
A shorter barrel main grant you little in concealment, but it helps a lot with sitting comfortably for IWB carry! I already have full-size pistols I could carry if/when I plan to be on my feet. I'm looking for something a little smaller that will still shoot well.
Russ Jackson
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Get the Original Detonics Combat Master.
So far I love both of my Colts, a 3 inch New Agent and a 4.25 inch TALO edition CCO.
The CCO is easier to shoot and the New Agent is easier to carry, I could write more about them but it basically boils down to that. The "sights" (or lack thereof) on the New Agent take some getting used to, but the setup works well for up close shooting (less than 10 yards). Not that you can't shoot out farther with it, but being precise is a bit harder.
For a 1911 not totally dedicated to carry, I'd definitely focus my search on Commander or CCO style 1911s. I love my Colts, but I'd be happy with a Sig, Springer, S&W, Dan Wesson, etc. They're all good, it just boils down to personal taste and options at that point IMHO.
There's also my 3 inch Springfield EMP, but they only come in 9mm/.40S&W so it won't work if you want a .45.
The CCO is easier to shoot and the New Agent is easier to carry, I could write more about them but it basically boils down to that. The "sights" (or lack thereof) on the New Agent take some getting used to, but the setup works well for up close shooting (less than 10 yards). Not that you can't shoot out farther with it, but being precise is a bit harder.
For a 1911 not totally dedicated to carry, I'd definitely focus my search on Commander or CCO style 1911s. I love my Colts, but I'd be happy with a Sig, Springer, S&W, Dan Wesson, etc. They're all good, it just boils down to personal taste and options at that point IMHO.
There's also my 3 inch Springfield EMP, but they only come in 9mm/.40S&W so it won't work if you want a .45.
How about 1,200 rounds in a week without cleaning?
I did swap out the grips and the safety though. Not because they broke, but for comfort.
Old Dog
Member
Why not go with the original? Everyone should have at least one pony in the stable ... (bottom, Colt's LW Commander XSE)
Available for a tad over a grand most places ...
Available for a tad over a grand most places ...
JTQ
Member
Those guys are all over the various 1911 forums. I'm not that big of an RIA fan, but I think they've proven themselves to be pretty reliable.
I'm not sure if it's in your price range, but the STI VIP is a winner if you're interested in a .9/.40 that's small and takes high-cap mags.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
Member
Sig Sauer C3. This is the Crimson Trace edition. While I agree all of the others mentioned are great choices, I love my Sigs...
Steve H
Member
My Kimber Ultra CDP II has been excellent for me for 4 years now.
trickyasafox
Member
my citadel cracked a grand with no parts failures. it is the 3.5 inch. Did change the recoil spring at about 800 rounds. My other RIA (full size tac in 9mm) is 700+ rounds in with no issues.
I did have the citadel's barrel rethroated. feeds everything now. Everyone has lemons- I had a colt LW commander from the 70s that I bought used that was a total dog. Unloaded it in short order- doesn't make colts bad, just sometimes a friday afternoon gun rears its head.
I did have the citadel's barrel rethroated. feeds everything now. Everyone has lemons- I had a colt LW commander from the 70s that I bought used that was a total dog. Unloaded it in short order- doesn't make colts bad, just sometimes a friday afternoon gun rears its head.
I have two different carry pistols in the size you are interested in. My primary carry is an STI Guardian in 9mm. At 3.9" it's an excellent carry piece and very accurate. I also have an STI Ranger in .45 ACP that also serves me well. Both are extremely reliable and work well in my Crossbreed Super Tuck Deluxe IWB holster. While I also have a VIP hi-cap which is excellent and offers increased capacity, you would have to stretch the budget by a couple of hundred bucks. I run Hornady Critical Defense ammo through them all without any issues.
Texshooter
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What is recoil like with that S&W scandium frame?
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