Trunk Monkey
member
My only objection to the CZ75B is that I thought the OP wanted something that can't be carried cocked and locked. Maybe a CZ75BD?
Suggestions for a 9mm, not to carry, as a first gun?
- Thread starter Krieg
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MedWheeler
Member
It's an outdated site, but there is some nice reading at www.best9mm.com..
I don't mind if it can be carried cocked and locked at all, I just have to be able to show my wife why it can't go off just with a trigger pull with a bullet in the chamber. In other words, that rules out Glocks but probably not much else. She doesn't want the gun in the house at all, so I'm giving her that concession. Her dad has about 50 guns so I'm not sure where this is coming from, but it's taken me a few years to get this far so I want to ease her into gun ownership.
Even a grip safety should work honestly. Just something I can point to as a safety. She's probably not going to fire it for a very long time, so it literally just needs to be something I can show.
If this sounds a bit manipulative, well... it is I guess! I see the need for having a gun around and we have kid #2 on the way (hence the safety need, even though it will be in a small safe beside my bed). I basically just told her I needed one in case something ever happens because it's my duty to protect my family. She pretty much stopped objecting at that point.
Even a grip safety should work honestly. Just something I can point to as a safety. She's probably not going to fire it for a very long time, so it literally just needs to be something I can show.
If this sounds a bit manipulative, well... it is I guess! I see the need for having a gun around and we have kid #2 on the way (hence the safety need, even though it will be in a small safe beside my bed). I basically just told her I needed one in case something ever happens because it's my duty to protect my family. She pretty much stopped objecting at that point.
My wife tolerated my obsession until one day when she was home alone and the front door was smashed open. She grabbed my Glock 23 and raked the slide. At that moment she became a true believer. The female deputy that investigated said the only mistake my wife made was not shooting the guy. I'm glad he ran, but the story would be different today. And the thing is, you're not going to be around 100% of the time. Get her involved.
maxxhavoc
Member
Since your primary goals are for a target pistol with a highly visible safety, I would recommend going with one of these:
-CZ75B
-Beretta 92FS
-Rock Island Armory 9mm Tactical 1911.
All have positive external safeties, and just as important to your requirements they have good triggers out of the box. Unless you start tinkering with them, a striker-fired pistol will not have as good of a trigger pull as a DA/SA or SA pistol.
If you want to go with a striker pistol, the M&P is a striker with an external safety. As far as safety is concerned, it is just about the best combination of features you can get - the inherently safer design of the striker pistol AND an external safety. The trigger won't be as nice as the above pistols, but with practice you can shoot it just as well.
-CZ75B
-Beretta 92FS
-Rock Island Armory 9mm Tactical 1911.
All have positive external safeties, and just as important to your requirements they have good triggers out of the box. Unless you start tinkering with them, a striker-fired pistol will not have as good of a trigger pull as a DA/SA or SA pistol.
If you want to go with a striker pistol, the M&P is a striker with an external safety. As far as safety is concerned, it is just about the best combination of features you can get - the inherently safer design of the striker pistol AND an external safety. The trigger won't be as nice as the above pistols, but with practice you can shoot it just as well.
LouisianaAviator
Member
Based on your criteria, my top two choices would be (in no particular order):
1. CZ75b
2. S&W M&P 9 with thumb safety
Or, if you're willing to put up with some finish wear on a surplus handgun, these Hi Powers are a steal. One of these might be my next purchase.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...+9mm+Pistol+(Assembled+in+Portugal)&groupid=3
1. CZ75b
2. S&W M&P 9 with thumb safety
Or, if you're willing to put up with some finish wear on a surplus handgun, these Hi Powers are a steal. One of these might be my next purchase.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.a...+9mm+Pistol+(Assembled+in+Portugal)&groupid=3
NGIB
Member
I'm very fond of the FNX. Lots of options, as many have said go to a range that rents them and see what works for you...
Big Shrek
Member
3rd Gen S&W's several different sizes available Bud's 5906 deal is awesome right now!
RIA 9mm tactical 1911's w/ .22TCM barrel, both rounds will totally jack a bad guy's day. $500
S&W Shield or M&P...even if you don't CCW, the Shield is a very nice small pistol to shoot.
Also easier to conceal around the house...
Check out the new RFID Safe end tables & other home-hide options...helps if you ever have kids...
Glock ain't hurting either...even though no OEM trigger block safety, there is a safety add-on kit.
RIA 9mm tactical 1911's w/ .22TCM barrel, both rounds will totally jack a bad guy's day. $500
S&W Shield or M&P...even if you don't CCW, the Shield is a very nice small pistol to shoot.
Also easier to conceal around the house...
Check out the new RFID Safe end tables & other home-hide options...helps if you ever have kids...
Glock ain't hurting either...even though no OEM trigger block safety, there is a safety add-on kit.
A few excellent candidates - there are more, but I'm very familiar with these:
1) Sig SP2022
2) CZ 75/85
3) M&P 9 or 9c
4) RIA 1911 9mm Tactical
I own and shoot all of these, and my wife likes (and is deadly with) all four. My first choice is a Glock, but the wife doesn't care for them - even though she shoots them well. The RIA is her new favorite, but she carries a 9c or a Shield.
1) Sig SP2022
2) CZ 75/85
3) M&P 9 or 9c
4) RIA 1911 9mm Tactical
I own and shoot all of these, and my wife likes (and is deadly with) all four. My first choice is a Glock, but the wife doesn't care for them - even though she shoots them well. The RIA is her new favorite, but she carries a 9c or a Shield.
modifiedbrowning
Member
A nice less expensive option is the Bersa Thunder 9 Fullsize. It has a Safety/Decocker and can be bought for $400 to $450. The trigger on mine has smoothed out nicely and is the best trigger of all my DA/SA pistols.
JR24
Member
Were I putting my money into your criteria I would look at the following, personally:
Sig 2022
Used Sig P229, 226 or 225 (if you can live with a single stack)
CZ75
3rd Gen Smith & Wesson
FNX 9 (if you can live with the ... agressive... texture)
Walther P99
Ruger P series (89, 95) <-- my first 9mm
Ruger SR9
Some of these don't have safeties, per say, but a decocker is a pretty solid start for a first gun. Try to fire/handle as many as you can and figure which fit you best, your wife too if she is also wanting to learn.
Sig 2022
Used Sig P229, 226 or 225 (if you can live with a single stack)
CZ75
3rd Gen Smith & Wesson
FNX 9 (if you can live with the ... agressive... texture)
Walther P99
Ruger P series (89, 95) <-- my first 9mm
Ruger SR9
Some of these don't have safeties, per say, but a decocker is a pretty solid start for a first gun. Try to fire/handle as many as you can and figure which fit you best, your wife too if she is also wanting to learn.
WestKentucky
Member
Congratulations...your first post was very pointedly a 9mm but the immediate discussion afterwards stirred up the crowd on DAO, SA, DA/SA as well as the brand loyal guys. Thankfully you said you wanted a real safety so the glock flock are staying away.
From reading your initial post I was immediately thinking about 4 guns in particular. A s&w 5906, a Beretta 92, taurus pt99, and 1911. After Re-reading the post I was down to the first 3. 9mm 1911 guns can be really picky about ammo so it's out. You want a decent sized gun and a decent weight gun for target/range use. The size gets you a better grip and the longer barrel gives you a longer sight radius meaning it's easier to aim precisely. Steel frame gives you more weight in the hand which helps smooth out slight breezes and funky motions you don't even realize you are making. You want some weight, and polymer guns for a lot of folks aren't enough weight. I absolutely think you should get a gun with a safety so that somewhat limits the options now as more guns go away from safety. I suggest a SA/DA gun as well as it gives you the best of both worlds provided one detail...in a sec...of a stiff trigger until it's needed and then a lighter trigger for more precisely aimed shots. Now you don't want to be stuck on hot when the range goes cold so you need a decocker to let the hammer down rendering the gun safe again without having to mag dump or do any odd hand maneuvers to lock a slide open or any such things that can potentially lead to an unintentional discharge. This feature is common on hammer fired guns which also shows you when a gun is hot rather than you having to inspect (handle) a potentially loaded gun that's not on safe. With a hammer back you know it's hot and you treat it as such every time (not that you shouldn't always treat every gun as loaded and hot but this tells you for sure it is). So we are down to very few models of guns with a decocker, and my experience leads me to suggest a 92. Doesn't matter which one, Beretta or taurus both make high quality 92s. I prefer taurus pt99 as it comes with adjustable sights which are very usable. There are other guns out there that meet the needs your describing but i absolutely would get a metal SA/DA hammer fired decocker equipped gun of some flavor.
From reading your initial post I was immediately thinking about 4 guns in particular. A s&w 5906, a Beretta 92, taurus pt99, and 1911. After Re-reading the post I was down to the first 3. 9mm 1911 guns can be really picky about ammo so it's out. You want a decent sized gun and a decent weight gun for target/range use. The size gets you a better grip and the longer barrel gives you a longer sight radius meaning it's easier to aim precisely. Steel frame gives you more weight in the hand which helps smooth out slight breezes and funky motions you don't even realize you are making. You want some weight, and polymer guns for a lot of folks aren't enough weight. I absolutely think you should get a gun with a safety so that somewhat limits the options now as more guns go away from safety. I suggest a SA/DA gun as well as it gives you the best of both worlds provided one detail...in a sec...of a stiff trigger until it's needed and then a lighter trigger for more precisely aimed shots. Now you don't want to be stuck on hot when the range goes cold so you need a decocker to let the hammer down rendering the gun safe again without having to mag dump or do any odd hand maneuvers to lock a slide open or any such things that can potentially lead to an unintentional discharge. This feature is common on hammer fired guns which also shows you when a gun is hot rather than you having to inspect (handle) a potentially loaded gun that's not on safe. With a hammer back you know it's hot and you treat it as such every time (not that you shouldn't always treat every gun as loaded and hot but this tells you for sure it is). So we are down to very few models of guns with a decocker, and my experience leads me to suggest a 92. Doesn't matter which one, Beretta or taurus both make high quality 92s. I prefer taurus pt99 as it comes with adjustable sights which are very usable. There are other guns out there that meet the needs your describing but i absolutely would get a metal SA/DA hammer fired decocker equipped gun of some flavor.
il.bill
Member
It would be hard to go wrong with a S&W 5906, or most of the other recommendations given. For a first handgun I myself would be happy with a brand new Zastava M70A in 9x19mm from J&G at this price. http://www.jgsales.com/zastava-yugo-tokarev-m70a-semi-auto-pistol,-9mm,-blued,-by-cai,-new.-p-59547.html
It is a simple and rugged Tokarev design with a safety that clearly will physically block the hammer from touching the firing pin. It is a somewhat heavy steel pistol with small combat sights that is very easy to field strip and clean. I really like shooting mine, and priced at less than $200 it is definitely a bargain.
Additionally, if the Zastava M70A was your first pistol, you would certainly be looking to expand your collection with newer design handgun(s) down the line!
It is a simple and rugged Tokarev design with a safety that clearly will physically block the hammer from touching the firing pin. It is a somewhat heavy steel pistol with small combat sights that is very easy to field strip and clean. I really like shooting mine, and priced at less than $200 it is definitely a bargain.
Additionally, if the Zastava M70A was your first pistol, you would certainly be looking to expand your collection with newer design handgun(s) down the line!
You need to educate your wife on Gun safety and safe handling practices - not just let her be comforted by a physical safety. Guns don't fire by themselves - even Glocks, if you can believe it.
JR24
Member
Many new shooters prefer a manual safety and/or an exposed hammer w/decocker as a first firearm. They usually can work up to DAO or striker types after familiarity and experience. This was my experience, and I doubt I would have become the handgun enthusiast if I had started with a platform I was uncomfortable with.
Suggestions like this can actually turn people AWAY from shooting sports by starting with something the SPECIFICALLY didn't want and making them uncomfortable and therefore unlikely to pursue the interest.
My wife prefers revolvers ATM because she's worried about the slide biting her arm. I can show her fundamentals, and explain the mechanics and physics until I'm blue in the face, the only thing that will help her get comfortable with autos (IE my carry guns, and generally the ones available instantly in the house) is to work up her confidence with certain semi's (.22's that she's OK with) and so on until she feels confident.
Just my experience, YMMV.
I've seen, and experience, many a handgun "slide bite", but all were on the hand. I've never seen or even heard of one biting an arm.
JR24
Member
Yeah, I know. My BHP will chew on my hand a bit occasionally. I've shown/explained how its probably not going to happen, but experience is all that will get her comfortable. So we'll work on it slowly. No hurry really, she's a crack shot with a wheelgun.
sirgilligan
Member
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- Dec 21, 2010
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It all depends on the size of your hands. You need to go and hold a few.
If the CZ 75 fits your hand then get one. If you can find a used one you can save a bit of money too.
Before you buy any used firearm, find out the manufacturing date of the firearm and ask on the forum if there is anything to consider. For instance, "SIG mud rails", or "BHP humped feed ramp", etc.
I bought a used CZ 85B for a range gun. I have exactly 974 rounds through it. It seems to get better all the time. Those are standard pressure, not +P or +P+. I think it will be several thousand rounds before I have to replace a part.
I have become so fond of the CZ 85 that I have helped my son, son-in-law, and neighbor all get CZ 75's.
Here are the 9's I have kept over the years:
And my very first pistol I ever bought myself back in the early 80's:
If the CZ 75 fits your hand then get one. If you can find a used one you can save a bit of money too.
Before you buy any used firearm, find out the manufacturing date of the firearm and ask on the forum if there is anything to consider. For instance, "SIG mud rails", or "BHP humped feed ramp", etc.
I bought a used CZ 85B for a range gun. I have exactly 974 rounds through it. It seems to get better all the time. Those are standard pressure, not +P or +P+. I think it will be several thousand rounds before I have to replace a part.
I have become so fond of the CZ 85 that I have helped my son, son-in-law, and neighbor all get CZ 75's.
Here are the 9's I have kept over the years:
And my very first pistol I ever bought myself back in the early 80's:
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This is how I was taught to pick out a first handgun when I took the NRA Basic Handgun Safety course; Go to your LGR and plan to rent every 9mm semiauto in the case over several visits. Save the targets and annotate each one with all the pertinent information. The target with the tightest groupings indicates the right gun for you to buy which may not be the coolest & prettiest, or the one everybody else is shooting, or the one that gets glowing reviews in the gun mags or the WWW.
Trunk Monkey
member
TrailWolf said:
I believe the OP stated explicitly that he wanted a visible, manual safety
Trunk Monkey
member
You might want to look at a S&W 6906. It's a compact version of the 5906 so that when carry time comes you could transition it to a carry gun
The Tristar CZ clones seem to be a good bargain too:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=750824&highlight=tristar
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=750824&highlight=tristar
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