Suppressor Question: POI

[WrongHanded]

I don't have any plans to get a suppressor, but I'd like to know how much installing and removing one from a rifle effects point of impact.

Any personal experience would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[jmorris]

Depends but adding weight/reducing recoil can make a difference between on/off. If you are asking about just removal and replacement effecting POI, that is not an issue.

 

[shoobe01]

Depends. Still doing many things to my bolt gun so not 100% solid on the change there, but for my various self-loaders (5.56 and .300 ARs, a SIG 551) there's no POI change I can tell, at least with RDS and magnifiers alone.

I gather (from other stories I have heard over time) the suppressor itself does nothing since no contact with the bullet, all impact is the weight on the end of the barrel. So, short and stiff enough: doesn't really matter. But the 26" barrel floating off a 700 receiver probably cares quite a bit what is hanging off the end

 

[WrongHanded]

Depends but adding weight/reducing recoil can make a difference between on/off. If you are asking about just removal and replacement effecting POI, that is not an issue.

On vs Off was what I meant. I should have been more specific.

 

[mcb]

That is going to depend a lot on the barrel contour and length and weight of suppressor. A heavy suppressor on/off a long pencil barrel is going to move the point of impact several MOA at 100 yards in many cases. A good heavy contour barrel and lighter weight suppressor can potentially have a sub-MOA point of impact move.

Also adding or removing a suppressor can tighten or loosen the groups. This is harder to predict but frequently group sizes will change due the the difference in the natural harmonics of the barrel with and without suppressor. That is a fair amount of weight hanging out on the end of the barrel. I have seen guns shoot tighter and other looser groups when mounting a suppressor.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

I have a heavy barreled Howa 223 cut to 16", and there is zero change with or without a titanium can. If you hang a stainless can on a long hunting weight barrel, there can be a significant change. Any poi shift should be consistent on or off, so shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Odd Job]

On a .22 there is significant difference, not just when comparing suppressor on vs off but also:

1) Comparing one suppressor to another
2) The aspect or rotation of asymmetrical baffles within a tube

In general, at 25 yards I have found that the point of impact is lower with the suppressor attached, than without. I have a thread on it somewhere on THR...

Edit: here it is

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ppressors-shooting-22lr.850864/#post-11141927

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

On a .22 there is significant difference, not just when comparing suppressor on vs off but also:

1) Comparing one suppressor to another
2) The aspect or rotation of asymmetrical baffles within a tube

In general, at 25 yards I have found that the point of impact is lower with the suppressor attached, than without. I have a thread on it somewhere on THR...

Edit: here it is

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ppressors-shooting-22lr.850864/#post-11141927

I was ready to call BS on your post, then my quote showed a link to your thread. It appears that you tested 1 rifle, and that isn't enough to make much of a claim on. In my opinion of course.

 

[Odd Job]

Which part is BS?
And how do you think the results of my testing could go if I change only the rifle?

 

[AK103K]

I use the same suppressor on a number of AR's, and the answer is it depends.

Some guns show a definite change in POA/POI with the suppressor on the gun vs off. Others dont show any real change at all.

Unfortunately for me, the one gun I would have preferred there was no change, my one precision type Armalite, has one of the worst variances. So, I zeroed the gun with the suppressor on.

I think its just going to be one of those things you have to shoot and see to know.

 

[Varminterror]

The hard and fast rule is this: “it might, so check yours.”

Folks seem to get axle wrapped about “a good load doesn’t shift,” or “heavy barrels don’t, light barrels do,” or “it’ll print low because of the muzzle weight,” or “it’ll print high because of the boost in velocity,”or... or... or... it doesn’t need to be so complicated. Just check your individual rifle. In general, I’ve come to expect only a few tenths correction regardless of which barrel I’m using, so I simply note the 100yard zero shift and move on with my life.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

I run an Accuracy International AXSA with a Thunderbeast Arms Ultra 9 CB. POI shift is usually less than .2 mil between on/off, across three different barrels (16" 308 factory contour, 24" 308 fluted MTU, 26" 6CM medium palma).

That said, the Ultra 9 is my only centerfire can, and is one of the lightest available on the market. They are also extremely high quality and engineered to reduce POI shift...what I'm saying is, YMMV, especially with cheaper/heavier cans.

 

[Txhillbilly]

The change in POI depends a lot on the barrel contour and barrel length,as well as the type of materials the suppressor is made of. A thicker contour barrel as well as a shorter barrel will have less POI change,just as using a Titanium suppressor over a Stainless Steel suppressor since the weight difference is usually a lot.
All 3 of my 30 caliber suppressors are made out of Titanium,and they all have small changes of POI on any rifles that I shoot with them from 223 - 300 WM. But,all the POI changes are repeatable and the same for each rifle with or without the suppressor on each rifle.
I write down all the changes in each of my log books for each rifle and bullet type I shoot through them.

 

[Stormin.40]

I have a silencerco hybrid and use it on 2 rifles and 2 pistol caliber carbines.

The carbines are shot close enough and the barrels are shorter and thicker so I see not POI shift.

In the rifles the AR has the biggest shift it is an 18" barrel and shoots around 1" lower with the suppressor mounted.

I have Ruger American Ranch in 350 legend with 16" barrel and see very little shift. The biggestest difference for me on this rifle is with a suppressor mounted I like to shoot subsonic ammo without the suppressor I shoot cheap 145 Winchester White Box. The point of impact change between loads is about 3 MOA low.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

On guns being shot at my range, I have seen as little as an inch difference between suppressor on versus suppressor off for a given load with a given rifle at 100 yards, but with a different weight bullet through the same rifle the difference between on and off was nearly 3" at 100 yards. I thought that was a really interesting result because it indicated that it just wasn't a suppressor weight issue affecting the POI shift.

I have seen a change as much as 7" down and left on a buddy's rifle at my range.

All of the changes I have seen have always been downward and more commonly down and left, but some have been down and right. I have seen YouTube videos that actually show the POI shifting upward with the addition of a suppressor (which may have to do with barrel harmonics?).

I have seen groups open up with using a suppressor and I have seen groups tighten with using a suppressor.

Simply put, adding a suppressor adds weight to the end of the barrel which tends to produce barrel droop. Adding a muzzle device to the end of your rifle can change the harmonics that can affect group size and POI as compared to a barrel without the device. Your favorite accurate load you worked up for that rifle may no longer be as accurate when you add the suppressor and so you may need to go through your ladder testing again to see which load will give you the best results with the addition of the suppressor. You may find ammo your gun didn't like to shoot well will now shoot well. In other words, it is much like shooting ammo a different gun when you add a suppressor. Your super accurate ammo in your rifle may not produce the same results in your buddy's rifle.

I generally run HBARs and a 14 oz Silencerco Omega Suppressor. Back when I checked on my rifles, the change was 1-3" depending on the rifle, all lower with the addition of the suppressor. I don't bother looking for the difference anymore. I just shoot suppressed.