Surplus .308 Win (NATO) ammo accuracy?

[TooTaxed]

Has anyone comparatively tested available surplus .308 NATO ammo for accuracy and consistency/dispersion...South African, Portugese, Australian? Indian produced after 1997 (hoping that's better quality than the earlier production!)? I do long range shooting to 500 yds, and may as well get the best for my hungry CETME...

By the way, I get dark flute marks on my cases, but have determined the military cases (South African and Australian) are not actually deformed...that's just powder marks. Haven't tested commercial ammo, but I understand the commercial cases are thinner or softer, and may actually deform...what's your experience?

 

[P95Carry]

TT .... only use the milsurp thru my L1A1 so . hard to give definitive info re absoluites ... re accuracy.

But ... the Portugese is well ''adequate'' for me and, more recently I got some Aussy stuff .. by all accounts that is about the best available. The South African is also I believe worth a try but Indian?? Not for me - even newer stuff... don't hear good things at all!

If you are lookin for 500 yd material then an 800 rnd case of Australian would I suspect serve you pretty well .. got my last lot at a gun show.

 

[TooTaxed]

Can hit the 360-yd gong at Ft Benning's English range every shot with both South African and Australian...haven't run across any Port at the gun shows yet. But can't consistently hit the 500-yd gong with every shot...suspect either dispersion becomes more important at that range, or I'm just not adequately zeroed at that range yet...:banghead:

Anyway, I'm having fun!

 

[P95Carry]

Anyway, I'm having fun!

THAT is what counts!

I think maybe I should try and make time to chrono a sample of the Port' and Aussy .. and see if they are any different on spread. My gut feeling tells me that almost any milsurp will exhibit enough spread to give some probs at 100 yds ... I mean ... if it was MOA deviant at 100 yds (so, only 1" in the group!) ... then by 500 yds ... hmmm, we have a prob!

For me, if doing that distance I really think I'd be only using my handloads .... ya know ..... each one +/- .1 grain ... bullets weighed and sorted ... then you'd be rockin!!

 

[JohnKSa]

Neither the South African nor the Australian .308 surplus is NATO ammo.

 

[Dave R]

I've tried 4 kinds of .308 surplus.

-Portugese (FNM headstamp) is my favorite. Shoots 2MOA in my CETME and 1.5MOA in my Rem700

-Hirtenberger is very close in accuracy, and is boxer-primed and therefore reloadable. I haven't seen any in a long time, though.

-Radway Green shoots about an inch wider groups in my rifles.

-CAVIM (Chile?) is the worst I have tried.

 

[DonNikmare]

I would recomend against shooting comercial ammo through your CETME. CETME was made to shoot the mil surplus - it is made out of thicker brass. Comercial is softer and I have heard of it exploding as it's cases can get stretched so much in the different CETME headspace that they tear and explode or get stuck in the chamber if you are lucky.

This article helps explain what I mean...
http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/7_62vs308.htm

So far I have only shot Port mil surplus in my CETME - about 360 rounds with no failures of any kind. Had to send the rifle back due to the front sight being so canted that the front post adjustment could not adjust for windage.

Can't help with the accuracy but Port and Australian seem to have the best reputation.

The black flute lines are normal, you just have to make sure they are cleaned well after every 200-300 rounds. I just bought a 12 g. shot gun cleaning kit from Walmart as I was told it's the best thing to use to clean the flutes.

The best CETME forum I have found:
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=47

This one is a formum too but not much posting is going on. However, it has an ecyclopidia's worth of info. r/d CETME gunsmithing, cleaning, breaking down, mods and accesories, and so much more.
http://www.cetmerifles.com/forum/index.php

This one has a lot of good spec info, pics, and the owner makes the best CETME shoulder pads available for sale...
http://cetme.homestead.com/

I have spent hours and hours and hours at those forums...a lot to read and learn.

Good luck on the accuracy quest!

Nik

 

[geekWithA.45]

Through my m1a scout squad, @ 25 yards (Indoor range...grr...)


Portugese: 1.5 inch groups
Australian: 0.75 inch groups
Indian: 5-6 inch groups

 

[Mr. Chitlin]

This is what I have gotten from my AR10. I have not really tried for accuracy so much with the surplus. I have it sighted in with my hunting loads.

Portuguese 147 grain FMJ Military Surplus BF 80-31 7.62x51 NATO

1- 2782.6
2- 2735.9
3- 2730.3
4- 2754.8
5- 2797.2
6- 2721.0
7- 2762.4
8- 2721.0
9- 2755.7
10- 2785.5

Average- 2754.6 ES- 76.2 Energy- 2477 Power Factor- 405



Australian 144 grain FMJ Military Surplus AFF 16.08.89 7.62x51 F4

1- 2817.8
2- 2761.4
3- 2778.7
4- 2795.2
5- 2761.4
6- 2764.3
7- 2751.0
8- 2786.4
9- 2757.6
10- 2762.4

Average- 2773.6 ES- 66.8 Energy- 2460 Power Factor- 399

 

[Bob C]

The Portugese ammo did as well or better in my recently departed M1A as anything, including reloads.

It would go less than 2 MOA, which was definitely my limit with the issue sights and 54 year old eyes.

Good news bad news, the jacket material was mild steel which left no fouling, but which may cause more wear than other types of jacket materials.

 

[Mark whiz]

The Aussie Surplus is "the Bomb" as far as accuracy is concerned.
Last week I put 3rds into less than an inch at 100yds with my M1A shooting prone, open sights.

Port is close to that & the next best ---- and So African is good for playing at the range with 3 to 5" 100yd groups depending on your particular lot of ammo.

 

[Gary H]

Ya, the Aussie seems to be good. I had similar experience with my scoped Savage 10FP.