Surplus Pistol For Concealed Carry - What Parts To Replace?

[HGM22]

If one bought a military surplus pistol for concealed carry, what parts should they replace to increase reliability? I'm thinking recoil spring, extractor and spring, and possibly hammer and trigger return spring. Anything else?

The gun in question would be a CZ75.

 

[lsudave]

That's a big gun to conceal carry...

I think springs are a good suggestion, and after a couple thousand rds through my pre B 75, my extractor broke. Don't know how many rds went through it before I got it.

I've heard the slide lock might be a potential breaking point on CZ's too, but otherwise, they are solid guns. Shoot a few hundred rds of your preferred HP through it to be sure it works, then you're good to go

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Add a slide stop (about $35) and not much else could go wrong -- if you have good magazine. I'd replace the springs in the guns and magazines, if it came with a couple.

If you replace the hammer springs you may find the trigger pull is heavier, so you may want to get a calibration kit (from Wolff Springs) which gives you different weights.

Straightening the magazine brake might be a good step too -- as that will allow the mags to drop free (if they don't already.)

Join one (or all) of the CZ forums. I used to participate here: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?PHPSESSID=2faa5bd239a4a607fdd740a816a8939c&#c4

Shooting a lot of rounds through a NEW gun helps break it in -- I doubt that's necessary with a used, surplus gun. Just make sure it functions properly, and will shoot the self-defense ammo you choose. Buy a box, try it, and if it works, buy another one or two... and shoot 124 gr. hardball at the range. (CZ used Sellier & Bellow 124 grain ammo as their design round.)

 

[gotboostvr]

An all new set of springs is always a good idea with used pistols.

I'd order up an extra extractor and a slide stop and just keep them as spares, wouldn't bother changing if it's working just fine.

 

[GRIZ22]

Have you fired the gun to see how reliable it is? You can get a couple of hundred rounds of 9mm for $50 or less now and that would be a good way of seeing where you're starting from.

 

[BSA1]

I think replacing the springs on used surplus guns is a good idea also and make it sop on them.

However given the design of a CZ-75 I would be reluctant to change out more than the recoil, firing pin and mainsprings.

Oops. My bad. I meant firing pin spring.

 

[Jim Watson]

the recoil, hammer and mainsprings

Can you explain these three springs? I allus thot the mainspring drove the hammer.

Where would one have a CZ75 surplus FROM?

I would replace the recoil spring, the Czech springs seem rather erratic.
I would replace or at least have a spare extractor spring and maybe the extractor itself. That is the only thing that ever gave me trouble with mine. When I reported it, the extractor was so cheap I replaced it but a spring might have been enough. Wolff makes a stronger one.
I put in a SOFTER mainspring so as to reduce the DA pull a bit.

I did not want to delve into the rest of the gun without very good reason. It seems not to be made for easy maintenance like a 1911.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Hammer Spring and mainspring are interchangeable terms for the same thing.

The CZ parts list (in the owner's manual) calls it a mainspring, but if you go to the Wolff Springs site, they call it (and all other similar springs for other guns) a "hammer spring." (Some folks mistakenly call the recoil spring in some guns the mainspring, too -- but that's simply not correct.)

I agree about going lighter on the hammer spring. (That's the package I mentioned getting a packet of several different weights -- it lets you find one that is lighter but which still ignites primers.) Wolff shows what's considered the "factory" weight, and you an get that and a couple of other, lighter springs.

I've found, too, that the Browning Hi-Power recoil springs are closer to the CZ recoil spring than the Wolff springs (unless they've changed in the last couple of years.) When I last got a "CZ" recoil spring from Wolff, they'd send a recoil spring for the Tanfoglio line, which worked, but which was built for a larger diameter guide rod. The Browning spring is almost an exact copy of the CZ recoil spring. They've since started making them in lighter weights than at first, too. They also had a variable rate spring for the BHP which worked well in the CZ.

The standard 75B isn't too hard to detail strip or work on. The decocker models seem to be a bit more of a challenge -- but I've never owned one or tried to do more than field strip the decocker versions.

 

[mgmorden]

I'm not a fan of replacing parts until they need to be replaced. Go out and shoot it - see if it works. If it is fine don't replace anything unless you need to. If I was that concerned about it I'd probably just buy new instead.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I'm not a fan of replacing parts until they need to be replaced. Go out and shoot it - see if it works. If it is fine don't replace anything unless you need to. If I was that concerned about it I'd probably just buy new instead.

I also agree with "don't fix it if ain't broke" -- but a surplus gun (often from the Middle-East) is somewhat different. You just don't know where it's been and how its been treated. If it's an only gun, or an only home-defense gun, you want to start as strong as you can. A surplus CZ-75B probably does need new springs, and certainly a extractor spring and recoil spring. The others can be purchased and not used until they're needed.

The price of a surplus CZ-75B and springs and slide stop is still probably several hundred dollars LESS than a new one. That's a big difference for most of us. Mec-Gar (who now makes CZ's OEM mags) are about half the price of springs from the factory -- and they're almost identical. I'll take the Mec-Gar any time.

(I'm a long-time CZ shooter and participated on the CZ forum for almost a decade, a good part of that time as a senior moderator. About the only problems you would hear about there were weak extractor springs [later upgraded to stronger springs], broken firing pin retention roll pins from dry-firing [the pins were first doubled, and then later switched to solid pins], complaints about weak recoil springs [which did not seem to have any functional issues -- just complaints], and slide stops that sometimes broke -- but generally after 10k-15K rounds [rare and generally following the installation of stronger recoil springs, sometimes done to protect the slide stop...] CZ also had a small batch of bad trigger return springs some years ago, quickly identified and fixed, but that was seen mostly in the compact models.)

You'd almost never hear of any other problems -- but a lot of complaints about the early versions of the polycoat finish, which continues to get better (improved formula) with time. Many of the surplus models I've seen were nickel-plated, and that's a VERY durable finish. (I've had several satin nickel CZs , and still have an 85 Combat in that finish that probably has 12K+ rounds through it, all trouble-free.)

The OP should seriously consider getting a Kadet Kit (a .22 conversion kit) for the 75B. The Kits are preciously priced, but worth every penny. Mine is one of the most accurate .22s I've owned.

 

[JShirley]

For "surplus" handguns, a CZ 75 should be one of the better choices for defensive use.

make it sop on them

I'm not actually sure what you mean.

 

[gotboostvr]

Standard
Operating
Procedure

I'm considering picking up a surplus 75 and tuning it up for a general "house duty" gun and building up my CZ 75B SA as a target gun.

I would almost certainly assume some new springs would be in order for a used mill surp of questionable milage.

 

[HGM22]

FWIW I haven't actually purchased the gun yet. I was just trying to figure out the difference in cost between a new CZ75 and a surplus CZ75 with parts added.

A lot of the surplus CZ 75s I've seen look like they've been run hard, so I'd like to replace parts BEFORE they are an issue since this will be a defensive gun. I should ask though, would the parts we're talking about in this thread break gradually (giving warning), or simply go all at once? Would the gun still work manually if something broke?

 

[Walt Sherrill]

... I should ask though, would the parts we're talking about in this thread break gradually (giving warning), or simply go all at once? Would the gun still work manually if something broke?

When a spring or part fails in a CZ, it generally has the same response as most any other gun with similar parts.

A slide stop will generally break suddenly, and no longer lock the slide back on the last round. Sometimes the gun will continue to run after the break, sometimes it won't. And unless you carry the extractor with you, you may be SOL.

An extractor will generally break suddenly (not previously mentioned) but can chip and slowly start to cause extraction problems. This is NOT a common CZ problem.

Weak extractor springs, especially in a surplus CZ will lead to extraction problems and stovepipes. (It's a very cheap part from Wolff Springs. (The problem with weak extractor springs is that the design allows dirt to get under the extractor, and if the spring is weak, won't allow the spring to close fully on the cartridge base. Keeping that area cleaned out with air or spray solvent will generlly make it a non-issue.)

Most of the other springs will begin to show wear by functioning less robustly. (Recoil Spring: slide not closing completely. Mag springs: rounds in the mag nose-diving or slide not locking back with last round. Slide stop spring: slide not locking back with last round -- also NOT a common problem. Hammer Spring/Mainspring: failure to ignite some hard primers. Trigger Return Spring: it breaks and the spring must be manually reset with each shot. (A broken trigger return spring is not a common problem -- and with a surplus gun, very unlikely.)

A weak mag spring will be the most common thing you'll encounter, with a weak recoil spring or extractor spring next. All are inexpensive springs and easily installed.

Use Mec-Gar mags with your CZ. Same quality as current factory mags (Mec-Gar has been making most CZ mags for years!), and they're generally half the price of a factory mag. Avoid Pro-mags magazines for the full-size CZs, but the Pro-Mag "compact" mags for compact models have been quite good. (Go figure!)

re: full-size CZ-75B and concealed carry...

I didn't mention it earlier, but while I'm a big CZ fan, I'm not as enthusiastic about the full-sized, steel-framed model as concealed carry weapons. They're relatively large and relatively heavy. After a day of concealed carry, unless you've got a very good holster and belt, you'll want something lighter and smaller. The smaller, lighter CZ compact models -- especially those with alloy frames -- are better in that role. They aren't generally found among "surplus" guns for sale. Used ones can be found.

For home defense, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better gun for less dollars (even after buying extra parts.) For concealed carry a "compact" gun, used, might be a better deal... or, one of my new favorites, a used CZ-75 P-07. Or a used (Horrors!) Glock 19. Maybe that's the way to go: get the surplus CZ for around the house, and something more compact and lighter for concealed carry.... or just go the "compact" round for both.

Sometimes lower cost has a higher price.

 

[JShirley]

Standard
Operating
Procedure

OH. SOP. I was wondering if you meant something about the lube. I was confused.

sop
säp/Submit
...

verb
1.
soak up liquid using an absorbent substance.
"he used some bread to sop up the sauce"
2.
wet thoroughly; soak.

 

[WardenWolf]

It depends on the gun. If it runs out of the box, don't mess with it except to improve comfort. You're more likely to decrease reliability on a working surplus piece than improve it. Keep in mind that surplus pistols were usually maintained to duty-ready condition up until to the point where they were put in storage. A pistol that wouldn't run would be fixed or discarded. My Polish P-64 got a heavier recoil spring and a lighter hammer spring in order to make it a more pleasant shooter, but beyond that it's stock.

 

[stchman]

I would NOT use an old military surplus pistol for CCW. There are SO MANY choices out there for a CCW gun it is ridiculous.

Just shoot that old milsurp gun at the range and have fun.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I would NOT use an old military surplus pistol for CCW. There are SO MANY choices out there for a CCW gun it is ridiculous.

If it's a mil-surplus 75B, it's not THAT old. It's just a USED gun with the problems likely with any used gun. (The only new gun I've bought in many years is a Kel-tec PMR-30 and a Sphinx SDP. I'm a great believer in letting other folks break in my guns. )

And for the 75B, all of the parts that MIGHT/could go wrong could be purchased for relatively modest amounts (maybe shy of $100), and whether you install them or not is the shooter's choice. I'd install the Wolff extra-strength extractor spring, and a lighter hammer spring if the trigger seemed heavy.

I think the 75B is a bit big and heavy for concealed carry, but a lot of folks don't find it a problem when carried. There aren't that many NEW guns suitable for concealed carry that can be had for under $400 (LCP, LCPs, PF9, a few Taurus), and many are $500+; while some of these guns are more portable, many of the smaller, less expensive ones are a PAIN to shoot. Been there, done that.

.

 

[WardenWolf]

I would NOT use an old military surplus pistol for CCW. There are SO MANY choices out there for a CCW gun it is ridiculous.

Just shoot that old milsurp gun at the range and have fun.

I carry a milsurp (Polish P-64) because it's more reliable than any commercial pistol. I can trust my P-64 not to fail on me. Sure, it may be slightly heavier than an LCP or other polymer .380, but it's still compact and true military quality.

 

[stchman]

I carry a milsurp (Polish P-64) because it's more reliable than any commercial pistol. I can trust my P-64 not to fail on me. Sure, it may be slightly heavier than an LCP or other polymer .380, but it's still compact and true military quality.

Do you have any empirical data to support that your Polish P-64 is MORE reliable than any commercial pistol?

 

[WardenWolf]

Do you have any empirical data to support that your Polish P-64 is MORE reliable than any commercial pistol?

No, but the Ruger LCP / LC9 is not built to military standards, nor is the Bersa Thunder .380, or any of countless others. None of these designs has passed military acceptance testing. The only small pistol currently in production that did pass military testing, at least in its original form, is the Walther PPK which the P-64 is based on.

Furthermore, a weapon in military service is individually tested, and any that exhibit problems are either fixed or scrapped. This happens long before they get to you, so the lemons have already been weeded out. I've seen Bersas fail. I've seen LCP's fail. I've seen Berettas with cracked slides and frames (Beretta can't make a good .380 pistol to save their life). The list goes on. Never heard of anyone have a P-64 fail on them.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

No, but the Ruger LCP / LC9 is not built to military standards, nor is the Bersa Thunder .380, or any of countless others. None of these designs has passed military acceptance testing.

I think you're giving “military standards” and “military acceptance testing” much more importance than is appropriate.

The CZ-75 (and the later 75B) discussed here was not designed or built for military use, but ended up there in various parts of the world. The CZ-75 was designed around the 124 gr. Sellier & Bellot 9mm round and the gun was intended for export to the West. (The 9x19 round was not used by the Warsaw Pact and its unlikely it would have ever been added to it's inventory!!)

While the Glock 17 was designed for the Austrian military, I seriously doubt that the Glocks sold for military or police use are tested differently than civilian models or held to different production standards than the guns bought for use as service pistols. Ditto Berettas, SIGs, S&W M&P, etc., etc. Many of those guns have a military heritage, too.

I also doubt that the 1911s made during WWII were better of quality or more durable than the 1911s built by Colt before or after the war. In fact, the need to crank out 1.9 million 1911s over the span of 3-4 years by many different manufacturers would suggest that production standards, while still good, were probably less stringent than the ones used to build civilian guns made before or after the war!

The only small pistol currently in production that did pass military testing, at least in its original form, is the Walther PPK which the P-64 is based on

Just because PPKs made in Germany were once passed by military inspectors doesn't tell us a thing about Communist bloc-made P-64s, a slightly different design, made in another country.

I've seen Bersas fail. I've seen LCP's fail. I've seen Berettas with cracked slides and frames (Beretta can't make a good .380 pistol to save their life). The list goes on. Never heard of anyone have a P-64 fail on them.

I would argue that you will see more of those guns fail BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT MORE OF THEM OUT THERE! P-64s, on the other hand, are still relatively rare! For many P-64 owners, after they've been fired for a while -- they can be brutal -- they'll end up in the gun safe. (To further complicate things, 9x18 ammo isn't always that easy to find any more, and not as cheap as it used to be. The array of effective self-defense ammo is also limited.)

As for me? I'd much rather carry a Ruger LC9s, which is shorter, lighter (by 5 oz!) while still holding one more round (7) 9x19 round in a shorter grip than the P-64 (6 rounds of 9x18). While the Ruger was not made to military standards, whatever that means, it can be repaired, mags can be found, if new will come with a warranty, and service is available.

 

[ny32182]

I would just shoot it.

If it works, you are good to go unless/until you are putting thousands of rounds through it.

My good friends that shoot CZs a lot have broken multiples of the following:

-Trigger return spring
-Slide stop

So that is where I would start if you feel the need to replace some stuff.

If the platform is new to you and you want to learn about it, no reason you can't just re-spring the entire thing. They aren't Glock-simple, but if you have a punch set and a mallet, there isn't really much of anything you can't do to them yourself.

 

[ny32182]

Likely you can polish some key points and adjust spring rates while you are in there and end up with a much nicer trigger as well.

 

[gojuice101]

I carried my CZ-82 before I finally found a holster that works well for my Glock. The only thing I noticed was a problem (and replaced) was the slide stop spring. The spring broke right after I got it and every shot would pop up the slide stop and lock it back. I don't know anything about the CZ-75, so I have no idea if they use a similar set-up on that. If so, I would recommend replacing that.