Survival rifle idea...

[LRS_Ranger]

Here is a thought that I had... Would a large caliber low pressure rifle like the 45-70 be a good survival cartage? Bullets you could cast your own with scavenged lead, and for powder, you could use just about anything. I imagine you could pull just about any random bullets that you find and work up a load. Even if your scavenged power doesn't allow you to push a bullet all that fast, a heavy lead slug will kill just about anything. The brass would last forever as well.. That would allow you to scavenge ammo without having to worry about having a gun to shoot it.. Thoughts?

 

[cpallenjr]

45-70?

also shoots .410 shot gun shells IIRC. I think you are on to something.

 

[FatPants]

also shoots .410 shot gun shells IIRC. I think you are on to something.

This is very much incorrect. Please only use ammo in a gun for which it was designed.

 

[goon]

People get away with 2.5 inch .410 shells in .45-70 but they're not chambered for both (usually) and the rifling will make the wad spin on its way out, creating a donut shaped pattern. IIRC, shotshells are loaded to a lot lower pressure so I doubt you could hurt yourself doing it, but I'm not a firearms designer...

I agree that the .45-70 has a lot going for it. Casting is possible and it was designed to work with BP from the beginning so you're right from that standpoint.
I have also thought about this and I think for a really primitive situation, a 20 or 28 gauge shotgun and some brass shotshells would also make a really decent gun for something like this.

 

[jmorris]

It is a lot easier to keep loaded ammunition serviceable than hanging onto bullet molds, handles a pouring ladle and associated bullet sizing hardware. Then you will have to have empty brass and reloading equipment. After you pack all of that you will still need some "scavenger" ammo that contains a known powder with an appropriate burn rate, so you can make a load that is safe and that you might have an idea of ballistics. If you think you could break down a bunch of 22's and cast a .458 bullet and fill a 45-70 case up with the powder, your survival situation won't last that long.

 

[Daniel Boone]

This is kind of weird, because there are some people who watches too many movies that thinks that if the world comes to an end that they would be the only one alive and would have the place to themselves.

The world in fact is not going to come to a end, and you are not going to be the only one alive on 312 Elk Street, Nowhere'sville NB.

About 40 years ago, when I was a kid, a different type of scenario came about where they made movies of plane crashes, where people had to live off the fat of the land and walk out of where ever they were stranded.

Even that possibility seemed remote at best.

The answer to your question is that the most suitable rifle for survival would be a .22 Long Rifle.
This is the most popular one - http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

It's compact, it floats, it has a service removable barrel, ammo is cheap and light and you could shoot it for two lifetimes and never wear it out.

 

[Art Eatman]

Yeah, I'll go along with Mr. Boone. Quieter is better, if what you want to do is survive. Any big-bore is an attention-getter.

But a Lee spoon for five grains of pistol powder and a double-ought buck makes a squirrel or rabbit rifle with any thirty-caliber critter.

 

[Reloaderharry]

+1 to what Daniel Boone said, the only way to go is .22 LR.

The AR-7 is a good choice (friend has one) but its not much of a shooter. I had trouble hitting with any accuracy something more than 25 feet away. If you can get away with not using a true "survival rifle" its hard to beat a 10-22 for a insanely reliable, very accurate out of the box 22 that simply refuses to jam or fail to fire.

The .22 has so much going for it in a survival situation. Its quiet, both the gun and ammo are extremely lightweight and compact, and almost anyone can afford to stockpile 1 or 2K worth of rounds in an old army ammo box just in case the zombies do indeed decide to attack. It might not have a ton of stopping power, but put 5 or 10 rounds of .22LR into someone in a few seconds from a semi-automatic rifle and they aren't going to be thinking about messing with you again anytime soon either. On top of this, with a good shooter behind it, it is capable of taking almost any game up to and including deer in North America (although not humanely, but if its starve or eat...). With a few thousand on hand you should be eating enough to survive long enough to outlast any survival situation.

 

[rcmodel]

+1 for a .22RF and a couple of bricks of HIGH QUALITY .22 ammo.

The .22RF will do anything that needs to be done in a survival situation as far as harvesting small to medium game for food, protection, etc.
Plus, it will not attract a crowd to see what all the Booming is going on over the next hill.
Plus, you can carry 1,000 rounds without breaking a sweat.
Plus, you can use .22RF ammo for trading / bartering for the stuff you forgot to bring with you.

40 rounds of 45-70 ammo, and enough lead, melting pot, ladle, bullet mold, bullet lube, powder, primers, etc to reload more ammo would be like carrying an anvil in your backpack.

The old timers did it, but they had pack mules and horses & wagons to carry their reloading supplies, bedding, and food.

PS: The AR-7 would be OK if you find one that works reliably.
Most of them don't.
I'd take a Ruger 10/22, or an old Winchester 06/62A pump.

rc

 

[rondog]

With proper hunting techniques and shot placement, a .22LR will kill anything you need to kill. At least get it down on the ground for you.

 

[oldbanjo]

I live almost in the woods here, I thought about getting the Henry, but decided I'll be staying here. I can't do much walking so I went for a longer 22 cal Rifle. I ordered a CZ 452 Ultra Lux today, the barrel is 28 1/2" long. Between this Rifle and my Marlin Goose Gun with a 36" barrel I should be able to reach out and touch something. Also we live on a Pond that is full of Fish. We stocked up on Wesson Oil. I have other Guns for Defense.

 

[TCB in TN]

I agree with the .22, but am not much a fan of the AR7. I have not found them to be very accurate or reliable (especially for the cost). Would rather get a little Marlin 60 (10/22 or other would do as well) with a folding stock and get a floating carrying case for it. Might take up a little more room, but will be a better option in the long run.

 

[jmorris]

Survival is a catch all word and there are not a lot of catch all rifles. Pick one and it has faults over other choices. I would not be one for trying to work up a useable load while trying to eat but that’s me. I’ll agree that a .22 is hard to beat for what I think I might need one for. Not all AR7’s are created equal and even the good ones that run take around 30 seconds to assemble (if you are well practiced) but are light and more accurate than I would have guessed with a plastic coated barrel on a take down rifle with sights on barrel and receiver. The Marlin and Browning take downs as well as single shots (O/U too) fix the last problem and are a bit faster to assemble. The Savage .22/20ga is very versatile but is more to carry around. If speed to put to use and quiet are high on your list of what you want, an SBR with a suppressor are just as compact and ready to fire in an instant.

 

[d2wing]

Is a 45-70 the same as a .45 LC?
The poineers cast bullets and some even made black powder. I'm more .22lr but if that's your cup of tea ok. Why not save on carrying brass and get a cap and ball .44 or muzzleloader and stash some pyrodex and caps?

 

[kayak-man]

To me, it always seemed like the .22 LR was a great survival gun for getting food, but did not offer as much protection from predators, either 2, 3, or 4 legged, as some of the bigger guns. Since the .22 would be used in mostly a hunting capacity, I've toyed with the idea of using a single shot .22 - maybe a break open with a collapsible stock bubba'ed on - and a good handgun or levergun in a harder hitting caliber, possibly 357 or 44.
YMMV

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[goon]

I missed the part about the scavenged powder, but it's a bad idea.The only safe way to reload is to know exactly what it is that you're stuffing into a cartridge. Otherwise, you could easily blow part of your anatomy off, and that would really decrease your chances of surviving.
OTOH, black powder can be made at home. People have done it and I think someone even posted about it on here. If you really had to, you could make it. But you still run into the problem with primers. Unless you're set up to make them, maybe you'd be just as well off sticking a flintlock in the closet for that rainy day.
Another option I've thought of lately - an air rifle. IIRC, there are pellet moulds available for them and many pack enough punch to knock off a small critter easily. I'd think a pound of lead would go a long way with one. At the same time, maybe learning to trap would be smarter in the long run.
Other points - the OP didn't say anything about carrying stuff around on foot. If he's planning to stay home, what he can carry isn't as much of a concern.
For bullets - yep, if you have an idea of what you're doing you can make them from scrap lead, wheelweights, and even bullets dug out of the backstop at the range and melted down. Check out the cast boolit forum for more info than you know what to do on that.
I also agree that there is a lot to be said for the lowly .22LR. I have shot completely through the passenger compartments of old cars with .22LR HV solids. A well placed shot will definitely drop a deer or a predator up to the size of a fairly large dog and with a lever, pump, or semi-auto you'd have a better SD weapon (but still only marginal). The ammo for them is still the cheapest available, weighs the least, and takes up the least space.

I don't really think there is one perfect "survival gun," but I think the combo of a good centerfire rifle/rimfire handgun or rimfire rifle/centerfire handgun could take you a long way toward it.

 

[Justin Holder]

I heard about an instance in Africa were an elephant poacher who would shoot an elephant and then dig the bullet(s) out and reload them over and over again in their big rifle using scavenged powder from 7.62x39 ammo.

I don't remember the source but I think thats how the story went.

 

[William Lee]

22 LR seems like a solid choice, although my first inclination was to go with a 20 ga pump shotgun if I could only take one. Seems like reloading at lower shotshell pressures would be what you'd want in a scavenged powder scenario, but primers would be an issue, as someone recently mentioned. Then I thought about a rifled flintlock musket of some kind, ideally a smooth bore so it can pattern shot as well as cast slugs at a close or medium range, but that would leave you confined to a single or double shot. After weighing the options, the Ruger 10/22 for hunting makes sense, but I'd also want something bigger as well, either a rifle for extra power, or a handgun in .45 colt for ease of carry and ammo versatility. There is no perfect answer for such an imperfect situation.

 

[mgmorden]

.22LR is the only way to go in this situation. .45-70 is just far too heavy and bulky. You can carry a few hundred rounds of .22LR in the space it takes to carry a few dozen rounds of .45-70. Reloading and such - just not a good option on the move. You want to carry ready-made ammo. .22LR does that well.

Ideally though, you'll have to eventually accept the fact that the VAST majority of us aren't capable of feeding a rifle from scratch. When the ammo runs out, very few of us are going to be able to make powder (much less primers), and "scavenging" it isn't going to be much of an option. Eventually you'll need to prepare for when the ammo runs out. Bow/arrows, spears, etc. Save your bullets for when you're having no luck and REALLY need to kill something to eat now, but otherwise, try to use something that doesn't involve a consumable resource like ammunition.

A spool of nice thick (30-40lbs test) fishing line and some big circle hooks would be FAR more useful for food imho. Tie the line to a tree limb, tie on the hook, and then add a piece of meat to it - just about anything will work. Toad frogs, left over meat from previous night's dinner, etc. Catfish will eat just about anything. Check the lines each morning and see what you got. You can reuse those lines many MANY times. Take them up before any big storms and I'd wager you can reuse the same line for a year or more.

 

[brandon_mcg]

if i had one to pick it would be a .22 and if it was the ideal situation i would have a silencer on it to reduce unwanted attention. you can pick up a 500 round box of ammo for 15 bucks. do that a couple times a month and you have a good supply of ammo.

 

[Phaethon]

I don't believe the OP intended to carry around cases, powder, primers, and all sorts of workbench reloading equipment in a pack with him. I'm pretty sure he simply meant that the ammo would be easy to recycle given its low pressure and unjacketed lead bullet. That way if he ever stumbles upon or barters for an incompatible ammunition cache in "the wasteland" that he can just pull the bullets and melt them, shake the powder into his .45-70's, seal them and get them ready to fire.

I guess it could be nifty to carry it around, but I agree with people's concerns on stuffing the cartridge with the wrong kind of accelerant. Carrying capacity is also a huge concern in a survival situation; in the end it probably works out better to carry eight times more .22 ammunition than much heavier, bulkier .45-70, which you may-or-may-not be able to re-use depending on the situation (and which would probably require considerable resources in powder and lead to reload properly).

 

[goon]

I think that a .357 rifle or even a .44 Magnum would make a more versatile gun.
A cast round ball could be single fed for small game or you could load it up for stopping predators or larger game.
Other than scrounging powder, they both fit the criteria.
And the .44 in particular should still be plenty effective with BP - kind of like a modern .44-40 with a stronger case.

 

[sert01]

Seems to me that one of the Springfield survival rifles in .22/.410 or .22hornet/.410 would do about anything you needed to get done. Easy to pack and stores some ammo in itself. Would be pretty quiet also so it wouldn't attract much attention. Sert01

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'll take my Henry levergun in .22LR any day over a 45-70. I have already hid all the .22LR ammo I would need for a very long time! lol

 

[jmorris]

As you can tell some folks are surviving FROM something and others are surviving ON something.

Its not clear from the OP what situation he is talking about. Most likely SHTF because if you can't find food, there likely won't be ammunition littering the landscape.

The way I look at it is, surviving from something puts the firearm in the SHTF category.