SW 642 vs Ruger LCP .380

[ghh3rd]

Ok - after all of the talk about the 642 for my wife, she saw a Ruger LCP .380 today and liked the way it felt to her.

The reason that I steered her toward a revolver is the reliability factor, but upon researching the Ruger LCP this evening it seems to be very reliable, and is being used by some LEO's as their BUG.

Some of my observations:

The hammers in both are out of the way when drawing. The Ruger capacity is 6+1 rounds, overall length is almost 1 1/4" shorter, although the barrel is almost 50% longer, is 5.6 oz lighter, thinner, and costs less. Of course it also has less stopping power.

One important consideration that I have is whether I want my wife to carry a cocked gun with 'one in the pipe', since racking the slide in a 'situation' is not feasible.

Thoughts welcome...

Thanks,

Randy

 

[Scott Free]

I like the 642, but both are good guns. I'd get her the one she shoots best. Neither will fire as long as she keeps her finger (and other stuff) off the trigger. If they are in a holster, they will not go bang.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

One important consideration that I have is whether I want my wife to carry a cocked gun with 'one in the pipe', since racking the slide in a 'situation' is not feasible.

The Ruger LCP has a double action trigger so the pistol isn't cocked.

The real problem with what you said is about her racking the slide. I'm not sure it you mean she won't have time to rack the slide or she will have a problem racking the slide. If she will have a problem racking the slide she should be carrying a semi-auto pistol. If she experiences a jam or has to clear the gun for any reason racking the slide will be necessary. If she can't do that it could cost her her life.

 

[ghh3rd]

Yeah, it was the time it would take to rack it. I believe that one should carry a semi in condition one, but I don't think that is viable for everyone. I think it would be a good idea to be sure she could rack the slide easily and knew how to quickly clear a jam.

I really like the features/benefits of both handguns. It seems that there is always a compromise when choosing between handguns. If she seems comfortable with handling the slide, we may decide on the Ruger rather than the SW (although I really like that little snub nose!)

Any other comments would be appreciated.


Randy

 

[tinygnat219]

I see a problem with both of your selections for your spouse. One thing we need to ask: Is she an experienced shooter? If so, then either of these would be a good gun to get. If not, then I would recommend something bigger sizewise for each of these guns. The S&W Ultra-light "ium" suffixed snub-nosed revolvers are excellent products. However, they are more or less "expert" guns as they take extra effort to learn how to shoot correctly due to the DAO trigger, short sight radius, and the lightness of the gun. If your spouse is recoil sensitive, then I'd suggest another gun and let her build her confidence up.

For the Ruger LCP. The same arguments apply here. This is a small gun with small grips, and pretty much non-existent sights. From what I understand, it's a great little BUG. However, firing one of these will show just how snappy .380 Felt recoil can be from such a small, light gun.

Obviously, I feel that these only apply to the new shooter. For someone who has been shooting for a while, or has gained confidence in their firearm skills, these concerns should be known.

 

[glockman19]

I carry a 442/642. I bought my wife a Bersa Thunder in .380 because she had trouble racking the slide on my 1911's, Glocks, and Beretta. She didn't like the recoil of my revolvers...so...the Bersa came home.

 

[ghh3rd]

I'm not actually sure how she will do at the range. My wife shot my Walther P22 once long ago, but didn't like shooting at all. I figure that I will start her with that again, and work up from there.

She has never wanted anything to do with guns, although she respects my interest in them. She witnessed a family member shot and killed by a crazy when she was young, and it brings back a flood of memories. She surprised me recently by telling me that the way things have become, she feels it's time to carry a firearm for protection.

"then I'd suggest another gun..."

As far as 'another gun'... do you mean a larger/heavier gun? What do you suggest?

I guess I'm just looking for something that she can carry easily, access quickly, and point and hit the intended target from a short 'confrontational' distance (7 yards or less). I doubt that she will ever practice enough to become a marksman at the range, but I don't want her to carry until I'm sure that her lead stops where it's supposed to.

Thanks again.

 

[Graymutt]

The LCP can be "snappy"" but it is controlable with practice. I would suggest she shoots one before you buy. could save you some money.

 

[Kleanbore]

Randy, for CCW one is going to need something that one will carry (read: small and light) and that can be drawn from concealment and fired quickly after a situation arises involving imminent danger. That usually means reacting to someone nominally seven yards away and potentially approaching fast.

That means a couple of the things: (1) no time to chamber a round and (2) forget sight picture.

Regarding the latter, the target is large and moving.

I haven't seen the Ruger yet but the 442/642 sights are terrible--without Crimson Trace.

My CCW instructor has laser sights on his home defense and CCW Glocks (but not on his range and competition guns). I bought the 642 with factory laser grips and wouldn't carry a small gun concealed without them.

The 642 is a handful to shoot. I use standard pressure loads to make the gun more controllable for rapid follow-up shots. Can't speak to the LCP. Stay away from the scandium Smiths.

Let her rent and shoot one of each before buying.

A friend who is a policeman says a lot of his folks have bought the LCP for back-up. He expressed concern about penetration, and recommends Federal defense loads. There's also a new Hornady load. Make sure she tries the gun with these.

Wit the revolver, one can practice with inexpensive, light loads and use better, somewhat hotter loads for carry. With the LCP, one will want to shoot the carry loads enough to have confidence in the functioning of the gun with them.

 

[presspuller]

Get her what she wants and likes. If she wants to carry a Redhawk then that is what you get her. If she likes the LCP then buy it already. If she likes the gun she will be more comfortable with it.

 

[heyjoe]

a model 36 using standard pressure loads or wadcutter may well be worth her time looking into. a little more weight to it, reliable, proven and can be fired SA.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would think a Steel gun would be a better choice than a Alloy one because the weight will aid in absorbing some of the recoil. If your wife won't wife carrying something a little heavier a 3" S&W M36 J frame would be a little better choice IMO. The sight picture is longer and the gun weighs more. Even a used 3" K frame like a Model 65 would be a great carry for her. Also, with the K frame you get a 6th round and if she carries .38 Special +P ammo in the M65 she will be well armed.

Remember, SHE must pick out the gun she will carry. I would suggest going to a bunch of stores and let her handle as many guns as she can to see which feels good in her hand. Then try and find a range that rents guns and have her fire the few she likes best. Only then will she be able to pick which is best for her.

Good luck finding something that's right for your wife.

 

[D-Man]

The Ruger capacity is 6+1 rounds, overall length is almost 1 1/4" shorter, although the barrel is almost 50% longer, is 5.6 oz lighter, thinner, and costs less.

One comment here is that the barrel length of revolvers and semi-autos are measured differently, causing the numbers to sound as if the auto has a longer barrel but in essence it probably is much closer than you think (or may be even). I believe to make it equal, you need to include the revolvers cylinder length in the equation.

Hopefully somebody can explain this in a more articulate way, and correct any potential errors in what I've said.

 

[56FordGuy]

The best way to get the 'right' answer for your wife would be to find a range that rents guns, or a gun store with a range, and let her shoot them both. Most of the time, if a gun shop with a range can see you're serious about buying a gun, they're okay with letting you shoot it on their range before you buy. Then buy whatever she's comfortable and accurate with.

In my experience, I've found two general theories on carry guns. Number One is to buy the smallest, lightest gun in the biggest caliber you like, because you won't shoot it much. If it's easy to carry, you're more likely to have it with you when you need it.

Number Two is buy something that you can shoot well, regardless of weight. You need to shoot this gun alot, to the point that it becomes an extension of your body. If you're ever unfortunate enough to need it, there's a good chance you'll be too scared/ adrenaline pumped to acquire the proper sight picture, control your breathing, etc that you can do on the range. Draw, aim, and fire need to become muscle memory that you can almost do with your eyes closed. However, expect to modify your clothing, daily activities to allow for such carry.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I carry a lightweight, single stack .45 that I can easily conceal in an IWB holster beneath a simple T shirt. However, for a while I viewed my range time with the gun like my exercise routine. This will be uncomfortable for a little while, but it will get easier and be worth it in the end.

So have her shoot them both and find what she likes. She may want something completely different, and there's no reason you can't get the 642 for yourself anyway.

 

[MJ2008]

S&w vs. Lcp

I have a S&W Centennial .38 and a LCP. Just got my LCP back from Ruger(recall) and have yet to try it out. Before the recall it was 100% thru almost 500 rounds. My S&W, Ive been carrying for almost 20 years. Always has gone bang. I have a few holsters for my .38 including a pocket holster so I can carry it 12 months a year comfortably except when wearing certain pants or shorts. The LCP can be carried then. I feel that 7 rounds of .380 in a light compact pistol is fine for personnel protection. I dont have any issues with .380 as others have. However the .38 S&W is a bit better all around. Very safe(no misfires, jams or oops if dropped). Very easy for even the inexperienced to load and unload. Easy to operate(LCP is also). Modern hot .38+P(example Gold Dots)is a good round. I really like my LCP and it so easy to carry(light and flat) but if I could only pick one Im sticking with my good old reliable revolver.

 

[bredda]

I have them both. The Scandium 642 was for my wife's car and I put Crimson Trace grips on it. The LCP was for me because I buy stuff I don't need. We went to the range last week and she shot them both. She shoots very rarely and I was proud that she kept all the fired rounds inside the range. She didn't like the 642 due to the long trigger pull while watching the red dot do the Watusi on the target. She definitely didn't like the +P Speers coming out of it so I gave her some standard .38 special which tamed it down.

She had a little trouble with the slide on the Ruger which I can only blame its newness on. It's tight and is a little hard to grab onto to rack. She didn't feel the recoil was very harsh or "snappy" and neither do I.

Note the discussion about "sight picture" on both; these are both close-up, point and click guns, not Camp Perry candidates. Neither needs sights.

Both are DOA so the non-worry of "having one in the pipe" applies to both.

 

[poor_richard]

Go read this site:

http://www.corneredcat.com/

All of it. Then, have your wife read it.

The S&W J-Frames are not beginner guns. The trigger pull is too heavy, and too long for them to shoot (barring the exception to every rule). They definitely are not the gun for someone who does not shoot, and that is even more so in the airweight, or scandium versions.

I haven't shot the LCP, but I can't imagine that it's the most comfortable for the beginner to shoot due to it's diminutive size and light weight.

With all due respect, you are making a common mistake that many men make when setting their women up with a gun. That is, "Your trying to pick it for her." Take here to many shops and let her handle as many guns as she can. Let her look, and don't "steer" the topic. When she narrows down the choices, then, go to a range that rents, and have her shoot the guns. (People get in their heads that they want the smallest, lightest guns. Then change their mind when they actually shoot the things. Many of them eventually settle for the .22, or .25, which I suppose is better than nothing, although I could think of better clubs to use.)

Honestly, I do know some people who want guns for protection, but don't want to actually shoot them. My advice to them is always the same. "If you aren't going to take it seriously, then don't take it at all." Shooting 30-100 rounds, once per month isn't all that much for a life saving venture. In a fight or flight scenario, the chances are that she will revert to what she trained to do. If there is no training, then chances are that that is what she will revert to.

Last summer I took a female friend shooting for her first time. She had a great time, and did good with the rifle. After shooting the pistols, she looked at me and said, "Wow, they make it look so easy to hit something on TV, but it isn't like that when your actually doing it."

Many times, the main problems that new shooters (especially the frail or weaker) have is their mindset. You can teach them to rack the slide the way Pax suggests on her website, but many people must first overcome their natural reactions of holding onto it. Pax points out that it's more technique then strength. She's right, and learning that technique takes practice and determination. I know, because my father has the same problem. I taught him using Pax's prescribed method, and he still reverts to his natural instinct, then says he can't do it. He can do it, I've seen him do it. It's mindset. I've seen the same thing in women who have trouble racking the slide. They have to let go of what they think the know, and that is sometimes hard.

 

[M&PVolk]

I am going to second what Glockman19 said. I think the 38+p is a great SD round, and I love the airweight Smith revolvers. That said, many ladies seem to struggle with any true accuracy with the gun. My wife felt the same way, and the Ruger LCP caught her eye. The Ruger is sweet, but would it hold up to thousands and thousands of training rounds I'm sure my wife would need? Could she hit anything with it? Would the double action trigger be the ideal carry method for her?

I convinced her to investigate some other options, and she is glad she did. She settled on a Bersa .380 and loves it. The gun is small enough to be very easily concealed, but is big enough to provide a solid feel. It manages recoil very softly and has a decocking system. It is also a great value. I consider the Bersa .380 to be the best all around .380 on the market. At the very least, take a moment to check one out, you might be really surprised.

 

[Mushinto]

... but upon researching the Ruger LCP this evening it seems to be very reliable, and is being used by some LEO's as their BUG. ...

The LCP has not been around long enough to have any history of reliability.

Teach your wife to shoot but let her pick out the gun.

ML

 

[whlsdn]

good question

First, if your wife was actually able to put her hands on an LCP, most folks in my neck of the woods would say she shoulda bought it. That's because in Colorado every gun dealer has a long waiting list for the few LCPs they get from Ruger. As for reliability & durability, I trust Ruger as much as S&W. The details of the current LCP recall simply prove that point, IMHO.

Actually, I was considering a Kel-Tec P3AT (which looks like a slightly less refined LCP) for warm weather carry personally. Most other guns are 1) too expensive, 2) too heavy, and/or 3) too bulky to suit me. Even my Taurus PT145 Mil Pro, although it is remarkably small and light for a hand cannon carrying 11 rounds. Also it has been a very reliable shooter in my experience. But for summer carry, still too much gun for this 5'9" guy.

Then I got a deal on a S&W 637. Light, decent $, small, and, with +P HP, a worthy defender. If my wife were interested, I think she could handle it with regular 38 ammo.

As said before in this post, choose the one she likes in her hand.

 

[CoRoMo]

SW 642 vs Ruger LCP .380

Now that is a very good pair to be choosing from. Both are on my wish list, but for the wife, I'd have to say the 642. Mainly because my wife tends to limp-wrist autoloaders and they'll end up with a jam of some sort. That ain't gonna happen with the 642. Although training will do away with that problem too.

 

[stalkingbear]

To begin with,I always reccomend a revolver meant for women,people with limited hand/wrist strength,or beginning shooters. A revolver is the closest thing to foolproof we currently have. Not only can you easily open cylinder to determine if it's loaded,or to load/unload it,but also you don't have to worry about:is 1 in barrel?,is magazine inserted?,is magazine loaded?,is safety on or off(dao without safety autos don't apply in this case)?,is decocker on?,etc. Revolvers are so much simpler to operate and shoot,especially if you lack the strength to rack slide. There's nothing that requires actual thought processes with a revolver in time of great stress such as an actual defense situation. That's good because it's normal to lose thinking processes when adrelilin kicks in,and otherwise can only be overcome with extensive training-enough to create,and keep,muscle memory. I recently bought wife a s & w model 442 airweight .38 "hammerless" (dao),installed a wolf spring kit in it,and she LOVES it!

 

[HexHead]

My wife used my BHP to practice and qualify for her carry permit and really likes my HiPower. But with it's adjustable sights it's not a practical carry gun. I made the usual guy mistake and bought a Smith 442, figuring she could grab that when she wanted to carry. Well, she absolutely hates it, so it's become my BUG.

Earlier this year, we went to the NRA Convention aka the world's biggest gun show, and she looked at just about every pistol on the market to see what fit her small hand and get an idea of what she liked and didn't like.

The only two pistols she liked for a carry piece were the Springfield EMP and the Para PDA. Long story short, the Para is her Christmas present.

 

[Ichiro]

Like a previous poster wrote, the LCP is double-action only. So is the 642. In that respect, they're exactly the same. Having carried a 642 for a couple years and shooting the LCP, I feel the safety aspect of each trigger's length, heaviness, or general suckiness is about the same.

I practice one-handed with my carry guns, and I demand a certain level of accuracy and control when doing so. I got rid of two J-frames earlier this year, because they did not shoot well enough for me in this manner.

When I tried an LCP recently, I found it to be awful in every respect ~ worse than the J-frames by an order of magnitude. It felt terrible in my hand, jumped like crazy when I shot it, and was extremely hard to keep on the target. I imagine it carries like a dream, though.

My wife positively hates snub-nose revolvers, because she can't hit a damn thing with them. If a Sig 226 9mm was available in a small package, that would be her gun. A 239 comes close, but that's still a big gun compared to the 642 or LCP.

 

[ghh3rd]

Thanks for all of the replies. It's interesting to see how each person justifies the reason for their favorite carry gun, and although the reasons are different, they are all correct, since it's such an individual choice. I am going to get my wife to handle and try as many types of guns as I can and see how the chips fall.

Thanks again,

Randy